Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

I have no problem with tongues trust me. It's just that I never heard or seen authentic legitimate tongues in 25 years. Not even close not even a little bit.

The point is legitimate authentic tongues are both miraculous and irrefutable. The stuff that I (up to this point) have heard was neither of those. It was childish incoherent self-deluded babbling. Definitely.

Yeah.... I've heard that as well. Also, "if you prayed to receive the Spirit, and didn't start speaking in tongues, you either (a) didn't pray hard enough, or (b) you weren't 'sincere' enough"
It's a pretty easy fall-back position.
and, if that is the case, then why does Paul say in Corinthians.... "22 So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; "

God does not reveal anything [usually] to unbelief.

That's funny.... I don't consider myself to be an "unbeliever"... and you don't know me well enough to insinuate that...

I believe I stated that in one of my previous comments.... if I am meant to have tongues, I'm sure I will have them. I am trusting the Spirit to lead me where He wills.... as I have been for about 57 years now, since baptism.

I totally agree with your last statement. I haven't attended a Pentecostal church myself for the last several years. Perhaps it's simply the time we are living in. I have at times experienced both. I agree that discernment will let you know right away what is genuine. I recall years ago we had a wonderful pastor when I was growing up. There was a problem with an older lady in the church, that every time her unsaved family would come, she would have a "tongues message". He was a very serious pastor about order in the church. He hauled her in his office and told her to cease and desist. But she was very good at playing the victim. I think she got his message and stopped. The thing is , she was known as a horrible gossip. Her heart was right, she wanted her family saved, she was just doing it in the wrong way.

God searches and knows our hearts. Many people are praying in unbelief, seeking evidence from God and HE will not grant them their desire since it is not in faith according to His word.

Even then there were only a few who would believe because "God added daily to the church such as should be saved."

and, if that is the case, then why does Paul say in Corinthians.... "22 So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; "

as I said, that's an easy fall-back position. How do YOU know what God will or will not grant? Pure supposition on your part.
Moses asked for "signs", and God gave them... God gives "signs" all the time.... remember Pharoah? He was shown a few signs. Signs are to CONVINCE doubters, unbelievers.... remember Thomas, after Jesus rose?


well, not so much. Seems like there were 3000 or so saved at Pentecost... and whole households were becoming believers... remember Cornelius? The church was growing so fast, it scared the ruling Jewish leaders.... that doesn't sound to me like "only a few" were believing...

That's funny.... I don't consider myself to be an "unbeliever"... and you don't know me well enough to insinuate that...

I believe I stated that in one of my previous comments.... if I am meant to have tongues, I'm sure I will have them. I am trusting the Spirit to lead me where He wills.... as I have been for about 57 years now, since baptism.

as I said, that's an easy fall-back position. How do YOU know what God will or will not grant? Pure supposition on your part.
Moses asked for "signs", and God gave them... God gives "signs" all the time.... remember Pharoah? He was shown a few signs. Signs are to CONVINCE doubters, unbelievers.... remember Thomas, after Jesus rose?


well, not so much. Seems like there were 3000 or so saved at Pentecost... and whole households were becoming believers... remember Cornelius? The church was growing so fast, it scared the ruling Jewish leaders.... that doesn't sound to me like "only a few" were believing...

You are kidding yourself ... You would have been among those who said "we believe in the Messiah but Jesus is not Him"

you have set yourself up as judge over God's people.

If you say so.



I know what, let's all just join hands and have a great big love fest, everyone welcome.

I wonder if someone were to visit Charismatic churches in their area what they would actually find. Is there a problem? Would they even witness anyone speaking in tongues at all? Would they see any of these doubtful manifestations that some have accused the Pentecostals of? Is it all just gossip, and false accusations? I don't care what happened back when, but if they were to visit churches this Sunday what would they actually find?

I have a feeling they would not experience anything unbiblical and might even have an encounter with God.

If you say so.



I know what, let's all just join hands and have a great big love fest, everyone welcome.

I did not mean to imply you were not saved ... but your attitude toward tongues is wrong,

You would have said of the Lord "how can this man be a prophet who eats with sinners?"

All who desire may join ... you have the "other brother" attitude it grieves you to see the fatted calf slain for the returning sinner.

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

Back in the day (way back) I heard people tell me that they would never attended anything OTHER than a hardcore Pentecostal Church. And I hate to say this but these facilities seem to me be some of the most shifty shady scammy Churches in the neighborhood. I attended a couple and never went back. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.....IMO.

On the other hand I have seen some very good Pentecostal Churches proclaiming/teaching good sound doctrine. If they would just eliminate the babbling fake tongues and continual "seeking after a sign" I would have no problem attending.