Do you view Holy Communion as Literal or Symbolic?

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Nov 26, 2021
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#61
Brother David, the Greek word for "remembrance" is transliterated "anamnesis": it literally means a memorial offering. Compare Num 10:10. See below:

"“Do this in remembrance of me” can also be translated as “Offer this as my memorial sacrifice.” The Greek term for “remembrance” is anamnesis, and every time it occurs in the Protestant Bible (whether in the New Testament or the Greek Old Testament), it occurs in a sacrificial context. For example, it appears in the Greek translation of Numbers 10:10: “On the day of your gladness also, and at your appointed feasts, and at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; they shall serve you for remembrance [anamnesis] before your God: I am the Lord your God.” Thus the Eucharist is a remembrance, a memorial offering we present to God to plead the merits of Christ on the cross." https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-institution-of-the-mass So Holy Communion is a Memorial Offering of Christ's Passion and Death. That's why the Lord says anamnesis.

Another verse to consider, cited in the Didache and by the early Church Fathers, is Mal 1:11. God says the Gentiles will make pure offerings to God, while in Jerusalem no sacrifice will be offered by the Jews. It clearly foretells the New Covenant. What are the offerings? It is clearly a reference to Holy Communion imho, which Christ told us to offer time and time again till He comes again.

"10 “Oh, that one of you would shut the temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on my altar! I am not pleased with you,” says the Lord Almighty, “and I will accept no offering from your hands. 11 My Name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations (Gentiles),” says the Lord Almighty." (Mal 1:10-11)

St. Justin Martyr, an Early Christian Apologist, in a Dialogue with Trypho quotes this passage: “God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [minor prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: ‘I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord, and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same, my name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering, for my name is great among the Gentiles . . . [Mal. 1:10–11]." He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us [Christians] who in every place offer sacrifices to him, that is, the bread of the Eucharist and also the cup of the Eucharist” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 41 [A.D. 155]).

I've been to both Catholic and Evangelical/Protestant Churches. I respect Protestant churches for their moral conservatism and their pro-life, pro-family, pro-matrimony values. But I disagree with the view that Baptism and Communion are merely symbolic. They are not imho.

In Christ,
N. Xavier.
God Bless.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#63
Thanks, Brother Jaumej. Please pray for India. There are 1.4 BN precious people here who need God's Blessings, the Gospel and Salvation in Christ. Missionaries from all denominations like Mother Theresa and Graham Staines have done Good Work for the Lord in India. My desire is to become a Missionary too, and serve the Lord and my country India well by leading Souls to Salvation in Christ. God bless you.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#64
Namaste (that is my Hindi, all of it). I truly do love India and credit her with so much in our daily lives. God bless you, and India, amen.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#65
Just to put another view on the table...
For as long as passover had been celebrated the bread and wine had been traditional and considered part of the feast directed by commandment.
Now notice that there is no mutton mentioned (lamb) which is also part of the feast.
Now these items are prepared a certain way . Used a certain way. Looked upon as a memorial from deliverance out of egypt. It is a sedar.
So now jesus points to the bread and explains its real meaning. Its prophetic meaning.
The same way with the wine. Which is new.
The bread is unleavend it is striped and holes are poked through it. 3 pieces are placed in a napkin in a row.
The middle piece is broken and wraped in a napkin and hidden and so on.
In short Jesus explains the sedar to his followers... then ask them to remember him and this night when they partake again .
This isn't just another view, it is the correct view.
He did not change but taught what they were. God forbid the drinking of blood. Let alone the eating of human flesh.
Im sorry but that is very wrong friend.
Somebody mentioned the veil of moses was upon the jews, who traditionally eat this bread and drink this cup in remembrance of the exodus. Basically, Jesus reveals Himself here, in the context of the Passover meal, as "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other Gods before Me..." and this is why "anyone who eats and drinks without discerning His body eats and drinks judgment upon himself (1Cor11:29), as it is in disregard to the first commandment.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
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#66
He did not change but taught what they were. God forbid the drinking of blood. Let alone the eating of human flesh.
Im sorry but that is very wrong friend.
Pottersclay, God doesn't think like you do. God's thoughts are much higher.

Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate manna and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many of the Jews who heard this completely understood what Jesus was saying. They muttered to themselves, how can He give us His flesh to eat and His blood to drink? It was a hard saying and most of the crowd left and returned home.

Pottersclay, apparently you are like the Jews who left Jesus and couldn't believe His teachings.
 

LoveBrokeThru

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
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#69
Unless Jesus, during the LAST SUPPER< cut his wrists and BLED into a cup and passed it around for them to drink..
Unless Jesus took a knife and cut a big piece of his FLESH off, and passed it around for them to EAT.

Did He do this?

IF not, then its SYMBOLIC.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#70
Unless Jesus, during the LAST SUPPER< cut his wrists and BLED into a cup and passed it around for them to drink..
Unless Jesus took a knife and cut a big piece of his FLESH off, and passed it around for them to EAT.

Did He do this?

IF not, then its SYMBOLIC.
Indeed. The meal was full of symbolic representations of the miracle of the exodus and the it was, and still is, Hebraic tradition to eat it in remembrance of God's deliverance of Israel out of Egypt (which is also symbolic of slavery). Jesus clarified that the command for eating it given to Moses in fact involved symbolism that was looking forward to Him, the lamb, the bread, the wine...even the bitter herb dipped in saltwater which symbolizes tears and the passing through the red sea, all of it.
 
Jul 11, 2020
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#71
Not only Catholics, but also Orthodox Christians, Lutherans and some Anglicans believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Holy Communion. And many Evangelical Christians are increasingly considering the possibility that the Historic Church got it right.

If we actually believed we received the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ on our lips from the Altar every Sunday or even daily, as often as we received Jesus into our hearts in Holy Communion, with what devotion we would worship! Imho, it is the solution to some of the closed and empty churches we see in parts of the world today, like in Europe. Rediscovering the Power of Christ's Blood in Holy Communion. The Lord's Word is Very Clear: His Flesh is Food indeed, and His Blood is Drink indeed. Whoever eats of it lives by Him.

Can those who believe Holy Communion is just a symbol explain 1 Corinthians 11? Here it is in the KJV:

"23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

St. Paul the Apostle here teaches us that:

(1) If we eat the Bread and drink the Cup unworthily, we are guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. How is that possible if Communion is just a symbol? If I tear up a picture of your wife - which is just a symbol - am I guilty of the blood of your wife? Clearly not. It was just a symbol. In my opinion, therefore, 1 Cor 11:27 is a Strong Proof that Holy Communion is the Literal Blood of Jesus.
Not only Catholics, but also Orthodox Christians, Lutherans and some Anglicans believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Holy Communion. And many Evangelical Christians are increasingly considering the possibility that the Historic Church got it right.

If we actually believed we received the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ on our lips from the Altar every Sunday or even daily, as often as we received Jesus into our hearts in Holy Communion, with what devotion we would worship! Imho, it is the solution to some of the closed and empty churches we see in parts of the world today, like in Europe. Rediscovering the Power of Christ's Blood in Holy Communion. The Lord's Word is Very Clear: His Flesh is Food indeed, and His Blood is Drink indeed. Whoever eats of it lives by Him.

Can those who believe Holy Communion is just a symbol explain 1 Corinthians 11? Here it is in the KJV:

"23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

St. Paul the Apostle here teaches us that:

(1) If we eat the Bread and drink the Cup unworthily, we are guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. How is that possible if Communion is just a symbol? If I tear up a picture of your wife - which is just a symbol - am I guilty of the blood of your wife? Clearly not. It was just a symbol. In my opinion, therefore, 1 Cor 11:27 is a Strong Proof that Holy Communion is the Literal Blood of Jesus.

(2) Secondly, in verse 29, the Apostle plainly teaches us what we must do: we must discern the Lord's Body by faith in God's Word. A Medieval Christian Theologian St. Thomas Aquinas said: "I believe everything the Son of God has said; nothing is truer than Truth's own Word". His point was we don't go by sight or taste or touch or smell etc here, but only by what God said "This is My Body".

Even Martin Luther used a similar argument in a Public Disputation with one of the other Reformers. I believe it was Calvin or Zwingli.

When God said "Let there be Light", immediately Light was made. When God says "This is My Body", it immediately changes into His Body. He then gave His Apostles the Command and the Power to do the same in His Name until the end of time when He returns.

Also, why should it be thought incredible, that God can change Wine into Blood? Didn't He change water into wine at Cana?

Finally, the Real Presence has sometimes been confirmed by miracles to "doubting Thomases", just like the Resurrection was. Even Atheistic Scientists have become believers in the Lord Jesus upon seeing these miracles. More on that here: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

God Bless.
You have said it all I will only add verse 30 which you seem to have left out.---- not that it makes much difference.

30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you and many sleep.

Even Paul saw the bread and wine in communion as so efficacious because it is not just a symbol but the blood and body of Christ which must not be trampled on.

When he says we must be in a state of grace to receive it , he sees it beyond symbolic in nature.

I agree totally with you.
 
Jul 11, 2020
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#72
He did not change but taught what they were. God forbid the drinking of blood. Let alone the eating of human flesh.
Im sorry but that is very wrong friend.
I can see why so many of his disciples deserted him. Understanding seems to be lacking.
 
Jul 11, 2020
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#73
NOPE - No such thing as transubstantiation in the Scripture.

Transubstantiation is a Roman catholic pagan belief/practice.

Mithra's bishops wore a mithra, or miter, as their badge of office. Christian bishops also adopted miters. Mithraists commemorated the sun-god's ascension by eating a mizd, a sun-shaped bun embossed with the sword (cross) of Mithra. The hot cross bun and the mass were likewise adapted to Christianity. The Roman Catholic mizd/mass wafer continues to retain its sun-shape, although its Episcopal counterpart does not.
All Roman Emperors from Julius Caesar to Gratian had been pontifex maximus, high priest of the Roman gods. When Theodosius refused the title as incompatible with his status as a Christian, the Christian bishop of Rome picked it up. Magi, priests of Zarathustra, wore robes that featured the sword of Mithra. Identical robes are worn by Christian priests to this day.--William Harwood, Mythology's Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus, Promethius Books (1992)​


In a direct correction from the LORD on this very subject HE says: "the flesh profits nothing"

"These words I speak they are Spirit and they are Life." = Read all of John ch6

You will never absorb Jesus into your body thru the flesh.

"Do this in remembrance of ME" = faith in His words is the Spirit Life.
I can see why his disciples deserted him. Understanding seems to be lacking.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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#75
@XavierJesusLovesIndia has made powerful posts on the scriptural evidence. I see your opinion is different. That is no problem. I agree with him.
I saw that and he used 1 Corinthians 10. What is Paul saying in those passages? Context is essential. He’s addressing offerings made to idols and the partaking in the Lords supper. He is not indicating literal blood and flesh.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
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#76
I can see why so many of his disciples deserted him. Understanding seems to be lacking.

I don't think that the Jewish followers of Jesus, who deserted Him because they didn't understand Him. In fact, they did understand Him but they didn't believe Him.
They understood, they asked, "How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?" Jesus was straight forward and quite clear in what He said but they understood but couldn't believe.

Of course, Jesus is God and can do anything, to include feeding us with His body and blood, granting us Communion/unity/oneness with Himself.

Too bad that, after reading the scripture passage about Jesus feeding us with His Body and His Blood, that so many today still can't believe and walk away from the truth.
 

Simona1988

Active member
Mar 15, 2021
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#77
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples and said: Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying: Drink ye all of it. For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
(Matthew 26:26-28).

It is truly His Blood and Body we are eating, but under the image of bread and wine. It’s a mystery hard to comprehend and we should be careful how we talk about it. The Holy Eucharist is at the center of the Divine Liturgy, it is the purpose of Christians getting together, it is how the body of the church is made (unity in Christ).

Roman pagans falsely accused the first Christians of cannibalism because they couldn’t understand the mystery. Even today, a lot of people (including most of the christians from this site) get scandalized if you say you believe the bread and wine is truly Christ’ body and blood.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,006
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#78
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples and said: Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying: Drink ye all of it. For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
(Matthew 26:26-28).

It is truly His Blood and Body we are eating, but under the image of bread and wine. It’s a mystery hard to comprehend and we should be careful how we talk about it. The Holy Eucharist is at the center of the Divine Liturgy, it is the purpose of Christians getting together, it is how the body of the church is made (unity in Christ).

Roman pagans falsely accused the first Christians of cannibalism because they couldn’t understand the mystery. Even today, a lot of people (including most of the christians from this site) get scandalized if you say you believe the bread and wine is truly Christ’s body and blood.
I do not see Jesus saying this is my body literally and blood and not taking into account Jesus saying "do this in remembrance of me."

If you are doing something in remembrance of something or someone, that which you do can not be actual, when it is done in remembrance of the literal.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,850
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#79
Ask yourself this question.

In John 6, Jesus said not to seek the food which perishes, but the one which ENDURES to eternal life

He also Said whoever ate will never hunger or thirst

He said they would never die, and they would live forever.

He said, unlike manna, in which the fathers ate weekly, and dies (because the food did not endure) whoever ate this would never die (it endures forever)

He said whoever ate has eternal life. and will be raised on the last day.

He said so so much,,

so ask yourself.. Does the communion bread and cup give you all that Jesus said it would?

If not then its a symbol.

If so. then why do you eat it week after week after week? That would make it no better than Manna,, you eat weekly, yet still die..
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
778
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#80
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples and said: Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying: Drink ye all of it. For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
(Matthew 26:26-28).

It is truly His Blood and Body we are eating, but under the image of bread and wine. It’s a mystery hard to comprehend and we should be careful how we talk about it. The Holy Eucharist is at the center of the Divine Liturgy, it is the purpose of Christians getting together, it is how the body of the church is made (unity in Christ).

Roman pagans falsely accused the first Christians of cannibalism because they couldn’t understand the mystery. Even today, a lot of people (including most of the christians from this site) get scandalized if you say you believe the bread and wine is truly Christ’ body and blood.
For sure it is a mystery and for sure Scripture supports what you say. Jesus was very clear about the bread and wine being His body and blood. He didn't say symbol. Many Christians say they take the Bible literally, but they really don't when they disagree with what it clearly says. Many Christians don't want to believe that Jesus is truly present in the bread and wine, even though He said He was. Many are in denominations that reject Jesus' words, so clear and to the point. Unfortunately many don't believe, not because it's not Scriptural, but because they don't want to believe Jesus.