Do you view Holy Communion as Literal or Symbolic?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Brother David, precisely that Blood of Jesus is on the Altar! It takes deep faith to be able to recognize it. The Lord said clearly "My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed" and people left Him because they couldn't accept it; notice nobody left Him when He said "My food is to do the Will of the Father"; everyone understood He meant He derives strength from doing His Father's Will. But here we Christians are supposed to derive our strength from eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood in Holy Communion. "Unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood, you will not have life in you". We will be weak if we do not subsist on the Body and Blood of Jesus. The Apostles' responded with pure faith. "Lord to whom shall we go? You have the words of Eternal Life". The Apostles believed, the others walked away. That's why the 12 Apostles were invited to the Lord's Last Supper, and the others weren't. If you disagree, that's ok. But as others said, in that case, Holy Communion will indeed become only symbolic for you. The Apostolic Churches, Catholic, Orthodox and others, pray in the Liturgy for the Bread and the Wine to be changed and transformed into the Lord's Body and Blood before partaking.

This practice was handed down by the Apostles. See for e.g. the Liturgy of St. James, Bishop of Jerusalem, one of the 12 Apostles, which is still used in the Orthodox Church: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0717.htm The Apostles clearly believed in the Real Presence.

We can discuss Mother Mary in another thread. In my opinion, Rev 12:1 shows God has honored Mother Mary, and She is our Queen and Mother (Jn 19:26; Rev 12:17), and it is a Biblical Commandment to honor one's Mother. Mary is not worshipped, but only honored.
i have a word for you from the Holy Spirit inside me - flee idolatry
We feast at the altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat, including catholic priests, bishops popes and all who hold to pagan practices and who work on the LORD's Sabbath.

For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world;
but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Run away from the blasphemy of pagan Roman catholicism and into the love of the Son of God who suffered ONCE and NEVER again.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,801
631
113
"For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep."
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
Literal or symbolic, a very important question indeed. For the first 16 centuries after Christ's ascension all Christian Churches, to include the Reformed Protestant Churches, took the Gospel teachings on Holy Communion literally. It's only in the last 500 years that many churches have moved to the 'symbolic' Holy Communion. For the first 1600 years it was never questioned. So did the Churches get it wrong for 1600 years? If so, how can the churches be trusted with anything today?
And many churches today realise that communion is a Roman Catholic exercise that was not ditched at the reformation so they have searched the scriptures and not found any biblical authority for bread and wine communion.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
A beautiful piece of work Magenta. Just one thing. Jesus did not have long hair.
Thank you :) Jesus is often depicted with longish hair, but in actual fact there is no record
of His hair length, unless you count the shroud of Turin as being authentic, perhaps.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,242
1,641
113
Midwest
op: LORD's supper = literal or symbolic?
Excellent, an UNleavened bread, representing His Holy Body, and
UNfermented fruit of the vine (grapes), representing His PURE BLOOD,
According To The Holy Scriptures:

1Co_11:26 "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew The LORD's Death till He Come."

Amen?

GRACE And Peace...
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
Thank you :) Jesus is often depicted with longish hair, but in actual fact there is no record
of His hair length, unless you count the shroud of Turin as being authentic, perhaps.
I am advised by the experience of two young men who both went to heaven at different times, saw Jesus and came back to earth. One of them painted a portrait of the Jesus he saw. The two men eventually met each other in the home of the one who painted the portrait and when he saw it he said "That's Jesus."

The portrait did not have long hair.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
I am advised by the experience of two young men who both went to heaven, saw Jesus and came back to earth. One of them painted a portrait of the Jesus he saw. The two men eventually met each other in the home of the one who painted the portrait and when he saw it he said "That's Jesus."

The portrait did not have long hair.
Doesn't mean He never did ;)

Plus, lots of people would recognize Jesus regardless of what He looked like :D
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
op: LORD's supper = literal or symbolic?

Excellent, an UNleavened bread, representing His Holy Body, and
UNfermented fruit of the vine (grapes), representing His PURE BLOOD,
According To The Holy Scriptures:

1Co_11:26 "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew The LORD's Death till He Come."

Amen?

GRACE And Peace...
One small point. You totally ignored the context of the situation. Paul was instructing them about their behavior when they came
together for a communal meal. He was telling them that they should not eat until everyone had arrived rather than what they were doing which was to start the meal before everyone could get there which meant that some missed out on the food.

Whatever slant you put on the verses you quoted it was something that happened in the context of a meal the same as it did at the Passover before Jesus died. There is nowhere in scripture where a sip of wine and piece of bread is a stand alone experience.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
Doesn't mean He never did ;)

Plus, lots of people would recognize Jesus regardless of what He looked like :D
If you look at the culture and history of the time you will find it was not normal for men to have long hair.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
1 Cor 10 seems to indicate it is literal. When we eat of the Bread which is blessed, we have Communion with the Body of Christ. When we drink of the Cup of Blessing that we bless, it is Communion with the Blood of Christ. We should see it as a Consolation from God imo. It strengthens us to know the Blood of Christ did not only wash us from our sins in the beginning when we are born again, it also continually sanctifies us whenever we receive that Precious Blood again in Holy Communion. In that way, we love God more and more.

1 Cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?"

1 Corinthians 11 also has a passage which speaks against treating Holy Communion lightly. I will quote that later on. God Bless, All.
1 Corinthians 10
Easy-to-Read Version
Warning From History
10 Brothers and sisters, I want you to know what happened to our ancestors who were with Moses. They were all under the cloud,[a] and they all walked through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and they all drank the same spiritual drink. They drank from that spiritual rock that was with them, and that rock was Christ. 5 But God was not pleased with most of those people, so they were killed in the desert.

6 And these things that happened are examples for us. These examples should stop us from wanting evil things like those people did. 7 Don’t worship idols as some of them did. As the Scriptures say, “The people sat down to eat and drink and then got up to have a wild party.”[c] 8 We should not commit sexual sins as some of them did. In one day 23,000 of them died because of their sin. 9 We should not test Christ[d] as some of them did. Because of that, they were killed by snakes. 10 And don’t complain as some of them did. Because they complained, they were killed by the angel that destroys.

11 The things that happened to those people are examples. They were written to be warnings for us. We live in the time that all those past histories were pointing to. 12 So anyone who thinks they are standing strong should be careful that they don’t fall. 13 The only temptations that you have are the same temptations that all people have. But you can trust God. He will not let you be tempted more than you can bear. But when you are tempted, God will also give you a way to escape that temptation. Then you will be able to endure it.

14 So, my dear friends, stay away from worshiping idols. 15 You are intelligent people. Judge for yourselves the truth of what I say now. 16 The cup of blessing[e] that we give thanks for is a sharing in the blood sacrifice of Christ, isn’t it? And the bread that we break is a sharing in the body of Christ, isn’t it? 17 There is one loaf of bread, so we who are many are one body, because we all share in that one loaf.

18 And think about what the people of Israel do. When they eat the sacrifices,[f] they are united by sharing what was offered on the altar. 19 So, am I saying that sacrifices to idols are the same as those Jewish sacrifices? No, because an idol is nothing, and the things offered to idols are worth nothing. 20 But I am saying that when food is sacrificed to idols, it is an offering to demons, not to God. And I don’t want you to share anything with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and then go drink a cup that honors demons. You cannot share a meal at the Lord’s table and then go share a meal that honors demons. 22 Doing that would make the Lord jealous.[g] Do you really want to do that? Do you think we are stronger than he is?

Use Your Freedom for God’s Glory
23 “All things are allowed,” you say. But not all things are good. “All things are allowed.” But some things don’t help anyone. 24 Try to do what is good for others, not just what is good for yourselves.

25 Eat any meat that is sold in the meat market. Don’t ask questions about it to see if it is something you think is wrong to eat. 26 You can eat it, “because the earth and everything in it belong to the Lord.”[h]

27 Someone who is not a believer might invite you to eat with them. If you want to go, then eat anything that is put before you. Don’t ask questions to see if it is something you think is wrong to eat. 28 But if someone tells you, “That food was offered to idols,” then don’t eat it. That’s because some people think it is wrong, and it might cause a problem for the person who told you that. 29 I don’t mean that you think it is wrong. But the other person might think it is wrong. That’s the only reason not to eat it. My own freedom should not be judged by what another person thinks. 30 I eat the meal with thankfulness. So I don’t want to be criticized because of something I thank God for.

31 So if you eat, or if you drink, or if you do anything, do it for the glory of God. 32 Never do anything that might make other people do wrong—Jews, non-Jews, or anyone in God’s church. 33 I do the same thing. I try to please everyone in every way. I am not trying to do what is good for me. I am trying to do what is good for the most people so that they can be saved.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
1 Corinthians 11
Easy-to-Read Version
11 Follow my example, just as I follow the example of Christ.

Being Under Authority
2 I praise you because you remember me in all things. You follow closely the teachings I gave you. 3 But I want you to understand this: The head of every man is Christ. And the head of a woman is the man.[a] And the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man who prophesies or prays with his head covered brings shame to his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies should have her head covered. If her head is not covered, she brings shame to her head. Then she is the same as a woman who has her head shaved. 6 If a woman does not cover her head, it is the same as cutting off all her hair. But it is shameful for a woman to cut off her hair or to shave her head. So she should cover her head.

7 But a man should not cover his head, because he is made like God and is God’s glory. But woman is man’s glory. 8 Man did not come from woman. Woman came from man. 9 And man was not made for woman. Woman was made for man. 10 So that is why a woman should have her head covered with something that shows she is under authority. Also, she should do this because of the angels.

11 But in the Lord the woman needs the man, and the man needs the woman. 12 This is true because woman came from man, but also man is born from woman. Really, everything comes from God.

13 Decide this for yourselves: Is it right for a woman to pray to God without something on her head? 14 Even nature itself teaches you that wearing long hair is shameful for a man. 15 But wearing long hair is a woman’s honor. Long hair is given to the woman to cover her head. 16 Some people may still want to argue about this. But we and the churches of God don’t accept what those people are doing.

The Lord’s Supper
17 In the things I tell you now I don’t praise you. Your meetings hurt you more than they help you. 18 First, I hear that when you meet together as a church you are divided. And this is not hard to believe 19 because of your idea that you must have separate groups to show who the real believers are!

20 When you all come together, it is not really the Lord’s Supper[c] you are eating. 21 I say this because when you eat, each one eats without waiting for the others. Some people don’t get enough to eat or drink, while others have too much.[d] 22 You can eat and drink in your own homes. It seems that you think God’s church is not important. You embarrass those who are poor. What can I say? Should I praise you? No, I cannot praise you for this.

23 The teaching I gave you is the same that I received from the Lord: On the night when the Lord Jesus was handed over to be killed, he took bread 24 and gave thanks for it. Then he divided the bread and said, “This is my body; it is for you. Eat this to remember me.” 25 In the same way, after they ate, Jesus took the cup of wine. He said, “This cup represents the new agreement from God, which begins with my blood sacrifice. When you drink this, do it to remember me.” 26 This means that every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are telling others about the Lord’s death until he comes again.

27 So if you eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in a way that does not fit its meaning, you are sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 Before you eat the bread and drink the cup, you should examine your own attitude. 29 If you eat and drink without paying attention to those who are the Lord’s body, your eating and drinking will cause you to be judged guilty. 30 That is why many in your group are sick and weak, and many have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves in the right way, then God would not judge us. 32 But when the Lord judges us, he punishes us to show us the right way. He does this so that we will not be condemned with the world.

33 So, my brothers and sisters, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34 If some are too hungry to wait, they should eat at home. Do this so that your meeting together will not bring God’s judgment on you. I will tell you what to do about the other things when I come.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
1 Corinthians 12
Easy-to-Read Version
Gifts From the Holy Spirit
12 Now, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand about spiritual gifts. 2 You remember the lives you lived before you were believers. You let yourselves be influenced and led away to worship idols—things that have no life. 3 So I tell you that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “Jesus be cursed.” And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” without the help of the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but they are all from the same Spirit. 5 There are different ways to serve, but we serve the same Lord. 6 And there are different ways that God works in people, but it is the same God who works in all of us to do everything.

7 Something from the Spirit can be seen in each person. The Spirit gives this to each one to help others. 8 The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom. And the same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge. 9 The same Spirit gives faith to one person and to another he gives gifts of healing. 10 The Spirit gives to one person the power to do miracles, to another the ability to prophesy, and to another the ability to judge what is from the Spirit and what is not. The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak in different kinds of languages, and to another the ability to interpret those languages. 11 One Spirit, the same Spirit, does all these things. The Spirit decides what to give each one.

The Body of Christ
12 A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too. 13 Some of us are Jews and some of us are not; some of us are slaves and some of us are free. But we were all baptized to become one body through one Spirit. And we were all given[a] the one Spirit.

14 And a person’s body has more than one part. It has many parts. 15 The foot might say, “I am not a hand, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not stop the foot from being a part of the body. 16 The ear might say, “I am not an eye, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not make the ear stop being a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, it would not be able to hear. If the whole body were an ear, it would not be able to smell anything. 18-19 If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. 20 So there are many parts, but only one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the foot, “I don’t need you!” 22 No, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are actually very important. 23 And the parts that we think are not worth very much are the parts we give the most care to. And we give special care to the parts of the body that we don’t want to show. 24 The more beautiful parts don’t need this special care. But God put the body together and gave more honor to the parts that need it. 25 God did this so that our body would not be divided. God wanted the different parts to care the same for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, then all the other parts suffer with it. Or if one part is honored, then all the other parts share its honor.

27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
You do realize that with Jesus came the New Covenant. You cite the teachings of the Old Covenant Levites. In fact, at the Last Supper, Jesus instuted His New Covenant at the Last Supper.

So, you can stick with the Levites and the Old Covenant or move to Jesus New Covenant.
Matthew 23
King James Version
23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,
that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Acts 15
Letter to Non-Jewish Believers
22 The apostles, the elders, and the whole church decided to send some of their men with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch. They chose Judas Barsabbas and Silas, who were respected by the believers. 23 They sent the following letter with them:

From the apostles and elders, your brothers.
To all the non-Jewish brothers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Dear Brothers,
24 We have heard that some of our men have come to you and said things that trouble and upset you. But we did not tell them to do this! 25 We have all agreed to choose some men and send them to you. They will be with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have given their lives to serve our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 So we have sent Judas and Silas with them. They will tell you the same things. 28 It has pleased the Holy Spirit that you should not have a heavy load to carry, and we agree. You need to do only these things: 29 Do not eat any food that has been offered to idols. Do not taste blood. Do not eat any animals that have been strangled. Do not take part in any kind of sexual sin. If you stay away from these things, you will do well.
Good-bye.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
If you look at the culture and history of the time you will find it was not normal for men to have long hair.
Early Christian Art of Jesus

"
From the relatively unknown first-century Alexamenos graffito, to the famous sixth-century Egyptian Pantrocrator
As outlined in a recent article about the realistic “looks” of Jesus, much of what we know about Jesus’ looks is a product of artistic convention. Since Scripture does not provide a description of what Christ looked like, painters and mosaic-makers would often resort to the artistic canons of their time to create a visual image of the Nazarene.This means that some of the earliest depictions of Jesus offer a precious insight into the diverse iconography style of the places and people that made up early Christianity."

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/10/the-six-oldest-images-of-jesus/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_clothing

google early christain art of Jesus