Do we stress baptism enough?

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Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#141
pottersclay said:
To tell you the truth i look at baptism as a preparation for this to take place but the act its self is not what does it.
Not that we are baptised but why have we been baptised. Out of obedience through faith in Christ.
Possible a public display of the beginning of reconciliation.
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What scripture states this? I know of none.
Actually Paul explains the spiritual reality that takes place when a person is obedient to water baptism. Verse 6 makes the point that sins are destroyed through obedience to the command. This lines up with what is stated in Acts 2:38 and 22:16, as well as other places in scripture.

Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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Keep tweaking and massaging the scriptures, eventually you'll make them say nothing.
 
A

Amanuensis

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Wansvic said:
There is always significance in God's commands. Modification and/or non-compliance of those commands frustrate the purposes of God. And result in dire consequences as seen from scripture; ie, Moses was barred from entering the earthy promised land because he neglected to obey God's direct command. (Num. 20:8-11) And, Uzzah's error in touching the Ark of the Covenant, though not intentional and done for a "good" reason, resulted in his death. (2 Sam. 6) These examples provide clear evidence that the need to follow God's instructions precisely should not be taken lightly. Why? Because obedience to God's commands serve a specific purpose. And many times this fact is not fully realized until after a person actually believes and obeys the command.

Since God's commands are far from mere suggestions it is important to search out and act in obedience to what is actually stated in the bible. A search of the word baptize, baptism, baptized, etc. reveals that all water baptisms were administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because it was Jesus who was crucified for all of mankind. Paul makes this point in 1 Cor. 1:13-15. Another thing many fail to realize is that how the apostles performed baptisms shines light on the command given by Jesus in Matthew 28:19. Jesus' stated they were to use a name. And the apostles understood that name was Jesus as evidenced from scripture. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Also, it was Paul who explained that baptism brings about the reality of being buried with, none other than Jesus into His death. Every believer must be planted together with Jesus for their sins to be destroyed in order to be in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection. Romans 6:3-6

Consider that Jesus addressed the need to use His literal name: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:14 Elsewhere scripture confirms that using the literal name of Jesus in faith is what releases God's power for specific purposes such as healing, casting out demons, etc. For it is at the name of Jesus that every knee shall bow of things in heaven, in EARTH, and under the earth. (Phil 2:10) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

The enemy unfortunately has had much success throughout history in promoting beliefs that do not line up with God's Word. And the result is many are deceived into traveling the broad way leading to destruction. (Matt. 7:13) Therefore it is necessary for each of us to search out and obey the Word of God and in doing so will find the straight gate and narrow way that leads to life. (Matt. 7:14)
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If someone says "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and In the name of Jesus" they cover all controversies on this formula.
But if someone thinks it is a formula of words spoken rather than the fact that they were sent in the authority of, and commissioned by Jesus to do such and such, then they are ignorant of the use of the English phrase "In the Name of..."

Also one must be careful that they are not communicating that one must speak the English word Jesus to be baptizing in the name of Jesus or they did it wrong.

If one is insisting that the exact wording must follow the exact wording used in Scripture they would have to insist that only Greek must be spoken at the baptism and that would mean that the name Iēsoûs.

One does not have the right to demand Jesus be used and not Iēsoûs. One must give the speaker the liberty to use Iēsoûs when baptizing if one thinks that is what was said when baptizing in the first century and is the biblical model.

Therefore one has conceded that the "Meaning" is the point and not the exact language. And in this case I propose for your consideration that the "meaning" of "In the Name of ..." be understood as "In the authority of" As in "By the authority of Jesus I baptized you..." or "In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" ... By the authority of the God head... I baptize you includes Jesus since he is the son. There is no one who was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who was putting their faith in Jesus in their hearts that would need to be told that they did not do it right and need to do it over again.

That sort of attempt to cast doubt in the minds of a born again believer comes from the devil himself and no Christian should ever get involved in helping satan to use scriptures to cast doubt in the mind of a born again Christ follower about their baptism and what words were spoken at the time. God hates that nonsense.
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
His Baptism did more than that. John's baptism resulted in the opening of eyes and ears so that people would receive the Good News of Christ.
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I say --------No I don't think it was the water Baptism opened peoples eyes and ears ---if that is the case then there would be no need for God or Jesus ------all we need is to be dunked in a tub and that would be enough to open our eyes and ears to the Gospel ------that is just a ridiculous notion ------

-
--Only God can change a persons heart to receive the Gospel and only then are a person's ears and eyes open to receive inward the Gospel ------God draws the person and changes their stone heart to a flesh heart so they can receive the Gospel which gives them Saving Faith which brings them to Saving Grace ----Saving Grace Comes Through Saving Faith -----Faith in the Gospel has to come first -----

John the Baptise came for Repentance only ---his mission was to make people realize they were sinners and needed a Saviour -----

John the Baptise did not have the Power to change a person heart ----

People needed to change the way they thought ------and it is the same today

Unbelievers do not think they need a Saviour to save them ------Repentance is needed -----admitting your a Sinner and need a Saviour is needed to start the process of receiving the Gospel ------

God drew the people to John and changed their hearts to be able to receive the Gospel that john was preaching and their dunking themselves was done as an act of Faith that they would be saved when the Messiah appeared ------


Ezekiel 36:26-27 AMP ------GOD speaking here

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

27 I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My ordinances and do them.


 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
Ok, but then what do we do with Paul's teaching of how there is only one Faith?

Ephesians 4:4-5 NKJV - "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism . . ."

The above shows that just as there is one Lord, there is only one Faith and one Baptism.

Further, we are told to have the SAME Faith as Abraham, but was Abraham baptized in water? Of course not. Instead, he received the Circumcision of Christ, which is precisely what physical circumcision reflects.

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."

Doesn't it seem like those of us who hold our position, that we have good and logical reasons for such? Can't you at least acknowledge that what I have presented is reasonable . . . if not the obvious Truth?
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Having the same faith as Abraham is believing and acting upon whatever God commands. We see this truth in Hebrews 11 and James 2.

One baptism refers to water baptism. Man steps out in obedience to the command and the Spirit of God brings about the reality associated with it.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Amanuensis said:
If someone says "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and In the name of Jesus" they cover all controversies on this formula.
But if someone thinks it is a formula of words spoken rather than the fact that they were sent in the authority of, and commissioned by Jesus to do such and such, then they are ignorant of the use of the English phrase "In the Name of..."

Also one must be careful that they are not communicating that one must speak the English word Jesus to be baptizing in the name of Jesus or they did it wrong.

If one is insisting that the exact wording must follow the exact wording used in Scripture they would have to insist that only Greek must be spoken at the baptism and that would mean that the name Iēsoûs.

One does not have the right to demand Jesus be used and not Iēsoûs. One must give the speaker the liberty to use Iēsoûs when baptizing if one thinks that is what was said when baptizing in the first century and is the biblical model.

Therefore one has conceded that the "Meaning" is the point and not the exact language. And in this case I propose for yourIf consideration that the "meaning" of "In the Name of ..." be understood as "In the authority of" As in "By the authority of Jesus I baptized you..." or "In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" ... By the authority of the God head... I baptize you includes Jesus since he is the son. There is no one who was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who was putting their faith in Jesus in their hearts that would need to be told that they did not do it right and need to do it over again.

That sort of attempt to cast doubt in the minds of a born again believer comes from the devil himself and no Christian should ever get involved in helping satan to use scriptures to cast doubt in the mind of a born again Christ follower about their baptism and what words were spoken at the time. God hates that nonsense.
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From your response I can only conclude you did not read my entire post. God demands absolute obedience to His commands for a reason.

If there is no significance to using the name of Jesus (in any language) than why did the apostles not baptize using the phrase as well as the name?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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studentoftheword said:
I say --------No I don't think it was the water Baptism opened peoples eyes and ears ---if that is the case then there would be no need for God or Jesus ------all we need is to be dunked in a tub and that would be enough to open our eyes and ears to the Gospel ------that is just a ridiculous notion ------
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First, I don't believe corrupt, bacteria-filled water saves. You MISSED what I said, which is that Jesus worked "through" John's Baptism, meaning that the act is in ASSOCIATION with John's baptism. I was clear.

And no, it isn't a ridiculous notion . . . the idea comes directly from the Word of God:

Matthew 21:25 NKJV - "The baptism of John--where was it from? From heaven or from men?" And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say to us, 'Why then did you not believe him?"

Luke 7:28-30 NLT - "I tell you, of all who have ever lived, none is greater than John. Yet even the least person in the Kingdom of God is greater than he is!" When they heard this, all the people--even the tax collectors--agreed that God's way was right, for they had been baptized by John. But the Pharisees and experts in religious law rejected God's plan for them, for they had refused John's baptism."

Perhaps the below verses explain why there is none greater than John the Baptist?

Matthew 11:10-11 NLT - "John is the man to whom the Scriptures refer when they say, 'Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, and he will prepare your way before you.' "I tell you the truth, of all who have ever lived, none is greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least person in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he is!"

Why do you have to be so aggressive with your words? You flush your doctrine down our throats, but what about the doctrines of being loving and kind? How do you selectively choose to ignore those doctrines? Do they not matter to you? Are you exempt from reflecting the Glory of God? Are you exempt from the role of modeling Christ? How do you do that? How can you be so utterly rude to people?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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Wansvic said:
Having the same faith as Abraham is believing and acting upon whatever God commands. We see this truth in Hebrews 11 and James 2.

One baptism refers to water baptism. Man steps out in obedience to the command and the Spirit of God brings about the reality associated with it.
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Round and round and round we go. Pointless.
 
elights

elights

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If you’re one believer that reads the Bible with the spirit of God,you know clearly that baptism is only identifying yourself with Jesus Christ in his death and resurrection,the remission of sins is a result of repentance!
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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elights said:
If you’re one believer that reads the Bible with the spirit of God,you know clearly that baptism is only identifying yourself with Jesus Christ in his death and resurrection,the remission of sins is a result of repentance!
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100%. I could NOT agree more. There is a context to water Baptism . . . it is the entire Bible.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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I hear a lot of talk about what baptism is and isn't; people are good at talking. How 'bout we start baptizing?

People who say baptism is merely ceremonial do so because it gives them justification for not baptizing. I say it has a greater importance than mere ceremony, that's why the New Testament commands that we baptize; not as an afterthought but as part of the gospel message.

I may not be a theologian but I know what God's word says.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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No, the "one baptism" is the baptism by the Spirit. He baptizes (immerses) us into the Body of Christ.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

This is the baptism that creates the One from the many. It is not the baptism of water.

Baptism in water: immersed in the burial of Jesus
Baptism by the Spirit: immersed into the Body of Christ
Baptism of the Spirit: immersed into the Spirit whereby we receive power from on high.
Baptism of fire: immersion into suffering by the hand of the Lord for the maturing of the saint.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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ResidentAlien said:
I hear a lot of talk about what baptism is and isn't; people are good at talking. How 'bout we start baptizing?

People who say baptism is merely ceremonial do so because it gives them justification for not baptizing. I say it has a greater importance than mere ceremony, that's why the New Testament commands that we baptize; not as an afterthought but as part of the gospel message.

I may not be a theologian but I know what God's word says.
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My baptism in water is a very powerful tool against the enemy who wants to accuse the old man who died. It doesn't save me to get to heaven. It saves me from the pursuit of my enemy. In this way I am able to experience the kingdom of God: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
 
R

Runningman

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Wansvic said:
Interesting that you see stressing required obedience to God's command as "hocus pocus, presto change-o, magic words." Sounds a lot like disrespect.

Also Colossians 3:17 accurately expresses a truth about using the name of Jesus, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
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People often say “I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” like if they don’t say those words then the baptism is not valid. Effectually they are using an incantation, not different than what a street magician uses to entertain her audience because the words themselves are impotent and don’t seem to have any other discernible purpose besides dramatic effect.

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means someone who is a real Christian. People have a problem with qualifying who a real Christian is because they aren’t able to.

That isn’t a problem, just let go and quit trying to control everything and have faith in God. God knows everything.

However, the command remains to baptize in the name of God. It’s that simple.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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Aaron56 said:
My baptism in water is a very powerful tool against the enemy who wants to accuse the old man who died. It doesn't save me to get to heaven. It saves me from the pursuit of my enemy. In this way I am able to experience the kingdom of God: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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elights said:
If you’re one believer that reads the Bible with the spirit of God,you know clearly that baptism is only identifying yourself with Jesus Christ in his death and resurrection,the remission of sins is a result of repentance!
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Precious friend, elights, are you talking about water? If so, that would be
Incorrect symbolic identification. Correctly/More Specifically would be:

The True believer that reads The Bible, Taught By The Spirit of God, would
know clearly That The ONE Baptism of Today's Dispensation Of PURE GRACE,
By The ONE Spirit, Is Him Identifying the believer (Spiritually) With The
ONE Body Of Jesus Christ, Seated In Heaven, In His Death, Burial And
Resurrection!

The remission of sins is a result of repentance and faith,
Because Of The Merits Of His Finished Work On The Cross!!

This Spiritual Identification has Nothing to do with men/water
(Improperly Changing God's ONE Baptism into TWO baptisms =
Bad Math!), And:

EVERYTHING To Do With God, And HIS OPERATION On the believer with
repentance and faith!!

Amen?

GRACE And Peace...
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
100%. I could NOT agree more. There is a context to water Baptism . . . it is the entire Bible.
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I challenge you to provide me one Scripture that Jesus ever baptised anyone of His disciples in water and said this I command you to do ------go and preach on water Baptism -----as it is the way to Salvation --it will change your hearts and open your ears and your eyes to my word so you can be saved ------

John the Baptise said ------

 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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studentoftheword said:
I challenge you to provide me one Scripture that Jesus ever baptised anyone of His disciples in water and said this I command you to do ------go and preach on water Baptism -----as it is the way to Salvation --it will change your hearts and open your ears and your eyes to my word so you can be saved ------

John the Baptise said ------

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No. You completely ignored my post to you, so I will not respond to yours. You are rude and aggressive . . .
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
No. You completely ignored my post to you, so I will not respond to yours. You are rude and aggressive . . .
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LOL :ROFL:----that is just a big COP OUT Statement -------you won't answer because you can't ------you Can't give me one Scripture where Jesus ever ---ever water Baptised His Disciples and told them that they were to go and preach on water baptism ------the Holy Spirit is our Baptism today -------

Water Baptism is a personal choice to show an outward expression of faith in Jesus Christ ------it is not necessary for salvation ---nor can it change hearts or open ears or eyes to the scripture -------it symbolizes a show of Faith in Christ today ------
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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studentoftheword said:
LOL :ROFL:----that is just a big COP OUT Statement -------you won't answer because you can't ------you Can't give me one Scripture where Jesus ever ---ever water Baptised His Disciples and told them that they were to go and preach on water baptism ------the Holy Spirit is our Baptism today -------

Water Baptism is a personal choice to show an outward expression of faith in Jesus Christ ------it is not necessary for salvation ---nor can it change hearts or open ears or eyes to the scripture -------it symbolizes a show of Faith in Christ today ------
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It saddens me to see such a beautiful avatar as the one that you have . . . completely negated by your evil attitude. You're but one step away from being placed on my growing Ignore list.
 
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