What does John 3:16 mean?

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Runningman

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#121
Mar 4, 2020
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Gideon300 said:
God did not stop loving man. Man turned away from God. Adam could not even take responsibility for his disobedience. "The woman you gave me....." And Eve blamed the devil.
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I see how the rabbit hole deepens. There seems to be an entire theology built around this idea that death is separation from God in order to ultimately make death not death, but instead eternal life in eternal pain. Thank you for sharing that, I do make it a point to understand all doctrines even when I am 100% sure they're wrong.

I digress, there is actually a verse for sin separating people from God and it's Isaiah 59:2. "Separation" from God does not mean someone is literally hidden from God in some place He can't find them or reach them. Separation from God means that God is going to literally not listen to you anymore the Bible often refers to this as God "hiding His face."

Sin is utterly detestable to God and offensive, if someone is separated from God it means their sin has offended Him. As you said, God does love people even though we can be so offensive, He'll eventually come back around, praise God.

Death is actually just death, but there is spiritual death, soul death, and physical death. If by death being separation from God they are destroyed then yes I agree, but death isn't living eternally out of God's presence.
 
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BroTan

Active member
#122
Sep 16, 2021
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#122
Runningman said:
So three persons are tormented day and night forever, all three which don't get a judgement or second death like everyone else according to you. I'm going to have to disagree with that for a number of reasons because it creates contradictions. There is also reasonable doubt that "forever and ever" is always literally forever and I can prove that.

There is precedent for forever not meaning forever. Revelation uses what is known as apocalyptic language sometimes and it isn't always literal.

Edom is not burning forever:
Isaiah 34:9-10 KJV
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not on fire forever:
Jude 1:7
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So how do we know the devil, beast, and false prophet are tormented forever when there isn't broad scriptural support for that? There's more support for the wicked perishing, being destroyed, or put to death.
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I have given very good scripture and verses up to this point, so peace in Jesus name.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#123
Jul 3, 2015
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#123

Our God is A Consuming Fire
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#124
fredoheaven said:
"Perish" doe not mean that way. Non awareness or unconscious. The case of the rich man and Lazarus demonstrate the fact of consciousness after physical death. God bless
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Correct. In the New Testament the word "perish" = "eternal damnation" not annihilation. But for some PERVERSE reason, we have people here who simply refuse to believe God and Christ, yet claim to be believers.

Here is what Jesus said regarding those who refuse to believe the Gospel: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16) This is equivalent to what He said in John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Paul tells us in 2 Thessalonian 1:8,9 that this means eternal separation from God, and calls eternal damnation "eternal destruction" (similar to the word used for "perish"): In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

The naysayers ignore all the verses and passages which speak of eternal damnation, and perversely change "perish" to mean annihilation. Unfortunately the lexicons and concordances were not clear enough about the meanings of these words in the context of eternal damnation, since they do not use that term.
 
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peldom10

Banned
#125
May 22, 2020
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Runningman said:
You might have come to this thread thinking, “Oh this is an easy one.” But I ask you to resist the urge to not read past the title. What I am about to say requires a truth-seeker’s heart, humility, and a thirst for the rightly-divided Word of God.

One of the most well-known verses inside and outside of Christendom is also one of the least understood.

Jesus asks us in a number of places to drop our preconceived notions, to stop thinking too much, and just believe like a child does. That’s the only way to really understand the Word of God.

John 3:16 KJV
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

“…whosoever believeth in him should not perish…”
The physical bodies of all mortals perish, whether they are unrighteous or righteous. The unrighteousness soul and spirit will not live forever under any circumstances because they did not believe. They will cease to exist, they will perish, they will not be conscious and alive like the righteous are.

“…but have everlasting life…”
Therefore, the promise of never perishing applies to the soul and spirit of the person who believes in Christ. The person who believes in Christ will have a soul and spirit that has everlasting life. They will be living forever in eternal conscious communion with God.

Concisely: believe in Jesus and you’ll live forever. Don’t believe in Jesus and you won’t live forever. Full stop.
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Many have a problem with John 3:16.

Here is what it means ;
John 3:16 is an umbrella of God's Grace/Forgiveness.
We can take advantage of it's meaning .....if/and providing;
1 We repent of our sins.
2 We are baptized.
3 We then live a righteous life...."maintaining until the end"....

Very simple.
 
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Oblio

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#128
#128
I believe that no one will suffer for eternity. The last thing I would do would be to say that someone who believes in eternal suffering is not a believer. SMH
 
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peldom10

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#130
May 22, 2020
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#130
Oblio said:
I believe that no one will suffer for eternity. The last thing I would do would be to say that someone who believes in eternal suffering is not a believer. SMH
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Well help us here...how long will the lost suffer?
I conclude you are adopting the practice of universalism.
Contra.... I will be the first to say...you are not a believer.
Reminder.......the Bible says...judge righteously.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#131
Jul 3, 2015
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#131
peldom10 said:
Well help us here...how long will the lost suffer?
I conclude you are adopting the practice of universalism.
Contra.... I will be the first to say...you are not a believer.
Reminder.......the Bible says...judge righteously.
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Forever
 
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Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. In the New Testament the word "perish" = "eternal damnation"
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That's false.

Perish in John 3:16
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Total KJV occurrences: 92

But for some PERVERSE reason, we have people here who simply refuse to believe God and Christ, yet claim to be believers
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You seem desperate to assign those who don't agree with you as perverse and false believers. Smh. Nevertheless, when you go low I'll go high and defeat you with facts and scripture just like how Jesus defeated Satan in the desert by quoting the word of God at him.


Here is what Jesus said regarding those who refuse to believe the Gospel: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16) This is equivalent to what He said in John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Paul tells us in 2 Thessalonian 1:8,9 that this means eternal separation from God, and calls eternal damnation "eternal destruction" (similar to the word used for "perish"): In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
Click to expand...


Damnation just means they'll receive a judgement from God. God's wrath is applied to those who are resurrected then judged, they are sent to the lake of fire after the great white throne judgement where they'll have a second death.

Revelation 20:14-15 KJV
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 KJV
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The naysayers ignore all the verses and passages which speak of eternal damnation, and perversely change "perish" to mean annihilation. Unfortunately the lexicons and concordances were not clear enough about the meanings of these words in the context of eternal damnation, since they do not use that term.
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I love the eternal damnation verses actually and we can quote all of them now if you want. Damnation means judgement. So an eternal damnation would be perishing (permanent death and destruction) just like Jesus said in John 3:16.
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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Magenta said:
Sick sick sick that this becomes your focus.

I conclude you don't know what you're talking about.
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Why don't you wish to explain something that is totally contrary to God's teaching and intent?
 
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Oblio

Guest
#136
#136
peldom10 said:
Well help us here...how long will the lost suffer?
I conclude you are adopting the practice of universalism.
Contra.... I will be the first to say...you are not a believer.
Reminder.......the Bible says...judge righteously.
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You can conclude whatever you want...if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...if I'm right, I'm right. I'm more concerned about what's going on in Europe...but not too concerned because I'm not God and also because I know Him intimately. He's in control of everything. I trust in Him.
 
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peldom10

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#137
May 22, 2020
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#137
Magenta said:
Sick sick sick that this becomes your focus.

I conclude you don't know what you're talking about.
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What are you on this forum for if it is not to educate in God's word?
 
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peldom10

Banned
#138
May 22, 2020
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#138
Magenta said:
Do you still beat your wife?
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Wow...you have issues.
What makes you think I am married?
What makes you think I am male?

Now I understand your use of the word....sick. You looked in a mirror.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#140
Jul 3, 2015
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#140
peldom10 said:
Wow...you have issues.
What makes you think I am male?
What makes you think I am male.

Now I understand your use of the word....sick.
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Whoosh. It went right over your head, didn't it?

Did you lie on your profile, then?
 
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