The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

AND 'CHRISTIANS' ARE PLURAL. And when you divide the church into 'the staying and the leaving' then the body becomes plural too. But if there were no 'PRE TRIB' hidden secret not written conclusions of man doctrine,

ALL OF THIS WOULD BE CRYSTAL CLEAR and WITHOUT ANY questions.


Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS THOUGH CHRIST WAS TEMPTED OF SATAN, WE WON'T BE. THOUGH CHRIST GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US, WE WILL NOT DO THE SAME FOR HIM, WE WANT HIM TO DO IT YET AGAIN.


Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'NO, THERE IS A SUFFERING WE WILL NOT DO, WE WILL NOT SUFFER TO DEATH'

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'YOU WAIT, NOT US'

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

NOT WILLINGLY BUT SUBJECTED 'IN HOPE'. BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'SHOW US'

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

PRE TRIB SAYS 'SEE' THIS PROVES IT, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

PRE TRIB SAYS AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT IS PRE TRIB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PRE TRIB SAYS, BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT IS WRITTEN AT ALL. HOW DO WE KNOW FOR SURE?

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

FOR WE ARE SAVED BY HOPE, NOT SOMETHING SEEN. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

PRE TRIB SAYS IT IS MAKING FLIGHT PLANS

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

WHAT ABOUT ESCAPE? PRE TRIB DOESN'T WANT THE HEART SEARCHED, IT ISN'T ABOUT THE WILL OF GOD, IT'S ABOUT THE BODY, THE PROMISES, THE FINAL GENERATION BEING TREATED AS NO OTHER EVER HAS NO MATTER WHAT CAME THEIR WAY.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


PRE TRIB SAYS SURE BUT NOT FOR THE FINAL GENERATION. THIS WHOLE WORLD IS BEING LEFT TO THOSE WHO JUST GOT KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN TO HOOK UP WITH THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE OR CARE WHO ARE GOING TO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST WITHOUT EVERY 'DEPARTING' FROM ANY FAITH IN GOD. SINCE ALL BELIEVERS WILL BE IN HEAVEN THERE WILL BE NO ONE TO DECEIVE. NO ONE TO HAVE A 10 DAY TRIAL. NOT EVEN ENOUGH YEARS TO LEARN WHAT IS WRITTEN LET ALONE DEFEND IT. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BODIES PROBLEM. THEY ARE OFF TO FEAST.

Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.


ALL EXCEPT FOR THAT LAST AND FINAL GENERATION OF CHRISTIANS. NO, THEY COME IN FAITH ALONE, SO THEY HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITIES ON ANY LEVEL.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Romans 8:32 He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

WELL, AS PRE TRIB SAYS 'EXCEPT FOR' WHEN HE COMES PRE TRIB. THEN HE ISN'T AT THE RIGHT HAND. HE WOULD BE AT THE FOOTSTOOL AT THAT TIME AND BEFORE HIS ENEMIES ARE MADE (CAST OUT) HIS. NO, IT ISN'T WRITTEN, BUT PRE TRIB SAYS IT, SO WHAT ARE WE TO DO? BELIEVE THE WORDS OF GOD?

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

PRE TRIB SAYS GREAT TRIBULATION AND TRIBULATION IS NOT FOR US OF THE FINAL GENERATION. WE ARE NOT SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER. THAT WOULD BE THEM. ONLY SO MUCH PERSECUTION A CHRISTIAN OF THE LAST GENERATION COULD TAKE. ONLY SO MUCH PERIL OR SWORD OR NAKEDNESS FOR THE BODY PRE TRIB PROMISES.

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

PRE TRIB SAYS TRUE, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST GENERATION. THOSE CHRISTIANS WILL NOT BE ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER BECAUSE 'GOD WOULDN'T DO THAT' AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE, THEY SAY IT.

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.


PRE TRIB SAYS EXCEPT FOR THE LAST GENERATIONS WE AREN'T CONQUERORS WE ARE TAKING FLIGHT AND LEAVING IT ALL TO THOSE WHO NEVER HEARD THE TRUTH AND THE TWO WITNESSES

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

PRE TRIB SAY 'I AM PERSUADED THAT DEATH WOULD BE AN ISSUE' AT LEAST FOR THE FINAL GENERATION.

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


AGAIN, HOW MANY OF THE WORDS OF GOD DOES THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY MAKE NULL AND VOID? HOW CAN WE TRUST ANYTHING WE READ IF PRE TRIB WERE TRUTH? AS YOU CAN SEE almost none of the words of God could be counted on if this apostasy were true.

I may just start with Matt and go through the whole book to see exactly how many verses are rendered null and void. I wonder how it would read if all those verses were just simply erased.

Those are the words FROM THE MEN WHO TRANSLATED THE ORIGINAL HEBREW AND GREEK WORDS

INTO ENGLISH.

GOD didn't do it. Men did. And THOSE men said WE DID OUR BEST BUT...

"the church which is His body" - Ephesians 1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)

--so, I'm not saying that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will be among who is staying (at the time of "our Rapture")... we will ALL be "going"in the Rapture event.

ZERO (of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") "left behind".

Then, following "our Rapture," many people will be coming to faith in Christ [in fact, "our Rapture" will be a major impetus that helps Israel (many of them) come to faith in their Messiah (Jesus Christ)--and it is these "believing remnant of Israel" who will be the ones DOING the "INVITING" (of the "guests [plural]" [aka the Gentiles]) TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" aka the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallel]: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]") ] But... and here's the key... these are never called "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" nor does "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" pertain TO THEM (though they will indeed come to faith in Christ);

It is a matter of WHEN a person comes to faith... 1) you and I are not "OT saints," for example; 2) those BORN DURING the MK age will not participate in "Rapture" you might agree, even if some might suggest the "unfairness" of these two sentences /ideas and demand we say the SAME THING about each of the persons involved in these two statements... (as a couple of examples)





[for the readers: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is distinct from "the church in the wilderness" of OT times, though both passages use the word "ekklesia"... as does Acts 19's use of this word 3x but which group of persons "fit" into NEITHER of those two categories]

Well, that’s your opinion. I believe otherwise.

Gen 4
And the ark resteth, in the seventh month, in the seventeenth day of the month, on mountains of Ararat;

4 ARK IS CARRIED MORE THAN A MILE INTO THE SKY ( as is the church)

Do those really say the same thing? Just as the subtil lie in the garden. You may be fooling yourself but not those who can read.

Your "Partial Rapture Theory" is not correct.



Paul stated (to the CORINTHIANS no less, even the "CARNAL" ones 3:1-4) that "... WE shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye [<--a very specific POINT IN TIME, the precise moment when one day turns into the next, AT SUNDOWN] AT the last trumpet"...

NONE OF US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] will exist on the earth during the "IN THE NIGHT" / "DARK" / "DARKNESS" time period (commonly called the "7-yr Trib"), the first ASPECT OF "the day of the Lord" earthly time-period of JUDGMENTS UNFOLDING (though it is true that we will be awarded differing levels of "REWARDS" at the "BEMA of Christ"--which, by the way, PERTAINS ONLY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" as does the "RAPTURE / SNATCH [IN THE AIR]")




[at the time of "our Rapture," our Lord will be taking out [/UP] EVERY LAST LIGHT BULB!! No matter how dim!!]

Me thinks you have me mixed up with another.
Me believes it is on purpose.

Those are nobody else but the Church! In Rev. 20 it doesn’t say a “raptured” church will reign with Christ for a millennium. Who will? The tribulation saints! And very specifically, those who rejected the mark and martyred for Jesus. Besides, there’s no Jew or Greek, all are one in Christ.

Um, that’s actually Rev. 11:10, already at Trumpet 6. Nice try.

You have turned this;
36 and ye like to men waiting for their lord, when he shall return out of the wedding feasts, that he having come and knocked, immediately they may open to him.
37 `Happy those servants, whom the lord, having come, shall find watching; verily I say to you, that he will gird himself, and will cause them to recline (at meat), and having come near, will minister to them;

....Into something in your mind you made up to be the second coming on horses..

He COMES FROM THE WEDDING TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE.
Study the Jewish wedding
Of course he come FROM THE WEDDING at the rapture.
That is 100% in line with the pretrib rapture.
At the pretrib rapture the father tells the son AT THE WEDDING to fetch the bride.
You are way way off on your millennial feast.

It is plain as day it is the rapture;

39 `And this know, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief doth come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken through;
40 and ye, then, become ye ready, because at the hour ye think not, the Son of Man doth come.'


The following verses MIRROR THE LAST SUPPER AND promise of Jesus to drink of the wine. Wedding supper, in heaven with his family.

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Then vs 39 and 40 is the pretrib rapture.

Your transposing a completely made up version with gentiles saved by jews in the gt and have them as "guests" at the wedding
Nope, nope , nope

You made up every bit of it.
The wedding and feast is in heaven.

In fact. The last guests are the Jews gathered in rev 14. They are last to the wedding /wedding feast

You went wild places with the "return from the wedding" ,and ,"sit down to meat"

Too wild.
None of it is true.
All it is, is the rapture and wedding supper in heaven.

Jesus reiterated over and over again that this gathering is to welcome the Coming of the Son of Man! From 24:31 till the goats and sheep judgement, all the passages are pictures to explain what the Coming of the Son of Man would look like, aka Second Coming! Does Jesus want his followers to discern the signs of time by what he said in the Oliver Discourse - or idly sitting on their hands doing nothing at the end of the world?

no ,it is mat 24.
Vivid pretrib rapture depiction.

It isn't changing at all.
Reads the same as it did 4 hours ago

WHO EXACTLY snatches the BRIDE? Does the BRIDE MARRY HIMSELF?

Who makes intercession FOR THOSE DWELLING ON EARTH FOR THOSE 7 YEARS? I guess 'the right hand of God' gets tossed out also? Or why don't you just tell me what HIDDEN wisdom tells you of the release of this commandment or how you weave the story around it so it still applies. Why even use the words of God at this point?

WHY, when the church has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING JEWISH (well, except for PARTAKING IN THE PROMISES) does it ON THIS SUBJECT GET TO follow JEWISH traditions?

Seems to me the church is all about the free and easy and taking taking taking and nothing about the trials and suffering and giving as sheep to the slaughter? Then again GOD DID SAY WITH A FOOLISH NATION didn't He?


AT MIDNIGHT. Isn't the 'night' of Satan?

These brides maids running around for the next 7 years are being tortured and killed in the worst ways possible, correct? Hence the need to escape? Doesn't that seem a really TERRIBLE TIME TO HAVE A WEDDING TO YOU? AFTER ALL A WAR HAS JUST ENDED IN HEAVEN AND

ITS woe woe woe to the earth.

DOESN'T THAT SEEM A STRANGE TIME TO BE OFF IN 'CHAMBERS'?

Zechariah 6:9 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;

11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and He shall grow up out of his place, and He shall build the temple of the LORD

13 Even He shall build the temple of the LORD; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon HIS THRONE and He shall be a priest upon His THRONE and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

So? Rev. 11:10 is referring to the same setting. And by the way, flood only lasted 5 months, and so is the locust sting judgement, which is IN the great tribulation, whether it’s 7 years or 3.5 years. Not pre-trib at all, but near the end.

So you said,
--so, I'm not saying that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will be among who is staying (at the time of "our Rapture")... we will ALL be "going"in the Rapture event.


BUT I am saying that 'the Church which is His body' WILL be STAYING as will EVERY SINGLE PERSON ALIVE until the RETURN OF CHIRST AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

AND I am saying THAT is when THE ALIVE AND REMAINING WILL BE CHANGED, GATHERED TO MEET THE KING OF KINGS AND HIS ARMY (AND RETURNING LOVED ONES WHO HAVE DIED) and WILL step foot on the earth AFTER CHRIST FEET HIT THE MOUNT OF OLIVES AND the earthquake and valley is cleaved and all the other 'earth' events take place so when HE sits upon the throne of DAVID we will reign with HIM FOR HIS DAY.

This gather should start at the Feast of Trumpets. The sounding of trumpet is a call for gathering, a call for action, or even a call to arms at times of war. That was the custom, every Jew at the time understood it. And the LAST trumpet, whether that's the 7th trumpet in Revelation or not, is the signal of His coming.

THAT IS WHAT THEY WROTE. I DIDN'T MAKE IT UP. I AM NOT SITTING HERE LYING, LIKE IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT YOURSELF YOU NEED TO. THIS ISN'T OPINION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. THESE ARE THE FACTS. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO DISPUTES THEM AS BEING FACTS.


1611 King James Bible Introduction
To the most high and mightie Prince, James by the grace of God King of Great Britaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c. The translators of The Bible, wish Grace, Mercie, and Peace, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1611 King James Biblereat and manifold were the blessings (most dread Soveraigne) which Almighty GOD, the Father of all Mercies, bestowed upon us the people of ENGLAND, when first he sent your Majesties Royall person to rule and raigne over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our ZION, that upon the setting of that bright Occidentall Starre Queene ELIZABETH of most happy memory, some thicke and palpable cloudes of darkenesse would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have bene in doubt which way they were to walke, and that it should hardly be knowen, who was to direct the unsetled State: the appearance of your MAJESTIE, as of the Sunne in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected, exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the government established in your HIGHNESSE, and your hopefull Seed, by an undoubted Title, and this also accompanied with Peace and tranquillitie, at home and abroad.

But amongst all our Joyes, there was no one that more filled our hearts, then the blessed continuance of the Preaching of GODS sacred word amongst us, which is that inestimable treasure, which excelleth all the riches of the earth, because the fruit thereof extendeth it selfe, not onely to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that Eternall happinesse which is above in Heaven.

Then, not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous predecessour of your HIGHNESSE did leave it; Nay, to goe forward with the confidence and resolution of a man in maintaining the trueth of CHRIST, and propagating it farre and neere, is that which hath so bound and firmely knit the hearts of all your MAJESTIES loyall and Religious people unto you, that your very Name is precious among them, their eye doeth behold you with comfort, and they blesse you in their hearts, as that sanctified person, who under GOD, is the immediate authour of their true happinesse. And this their contentment doeth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe that the zeale of your Majestie towards the house of GOD, doth not slacke or goe backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting it selfe abroad in the furthest parts of Christendome, by writing in defence of the Trueth, (which hath given such a blow unto that man of Sinne, as will not be healed) and every day at home, by Religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of GOD, by hearing the word preached, by cherishing the teachers therof, by caring for the Church as a most tender and loving nourcing Father.

There are infinite arguments of this right Christian and Religious affection in your MAJESTIE: but none is more forcible to declare it to others, then the vehement and perpetuated desire of the accomplishing and publishing of this Worke, which now with all humilitie we present unto your MAJESTIE. For when your Highnesse had once out of deepe judgment apprehended, how convenient it was, That out of the Originall sacred tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our owne and other forreigne Languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact Translation of the holy Scriptures into the English tongue; your MAJESTIE did never desist, to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the worke might be hastened, and that the businesse might be expedited in so decent a maner, as a matter of such importance might justly require.

And now at last, by the Mercy of GOD, and the continuance of our Labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hope that the Church of England shall reape good fruit thereby; we hold it our duety to offer it to your MAJESTIE, not onely as to our King and Soveraigne, but as to the principall moover and Author of the Worke. Humbly craving of your most Sacred Majestie, that since things of this quality have ever bene subject to the censures of ill meaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and Patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as your Highnesse is, whose allowance and acceptance of our Labours, shall more honour us and incourage us, then all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that, if on the one side we shall be traduced by Popish persons at home or abroad, who therefore will maligne us, because we are poore Instruments to make GODS holy Trueth to be yet more and more knowen unto the people, whom they desire still to keepe in ignorance and darknesse: or if on the other side, we shall be maligned by selfe-conceited brethren, who runne their owne wayes, and give liking unto nothing but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their Anvile; we may rest secure, supported within by the trueth and innocencie of a good conscience, having walked the wayes of simplicitie and integritie, as before the Lord; And sustained without, by the powerfull Protection of your Majesties grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and Christian endevours, against bitter censures, and uncharitable imputations.

The LORD of Heaven and earth blesse your Majestie with many and happy dayes, that as his Heavenly hand hath enriched your Highnesse with many singular, and extraordinary Graces; so you may be the wonder of the world in this later age, for happinesse and true felicitie, to the honour of that Great GOD, and the good of his Church, through JESUS CHRIST our Lord and onely Saviour.