When Does Following Biblical Principles Cross the Lines Into Abuse? (A Discussion of Awareness.)

I really appreciate people's feedback and hope you all will continue to share. Most of all, I hope to make others (especially young people) aware of red flags and pray that they will be strong enough to leave, if necessary.

Whenever I hear about someone wanting to "keep someone all to themselves" (no other friends or contacts,) I always think of a girl I'll call Dana (not her real name), whom I met when were were about 20 years old.

Dana was from a good Southern Christian family (I was raised in the Northern USA,) and I mention this because I'm under the impression that male and female roles/expectations are a bit more defined and traditional than in the South. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, but I think that's important to note because I think she felt an even stronger obligation to follow her man's lead due to stronger gender expectations in the South.

Dana was engaged to a guy whom I'll call John (not his real name.) I had a boyfriend as well at the time, and she started asking me about my relationship with him.

Dana confided in me that because they were now engaged, John was pushing her to do more and more sexual things, and when she said no or expressed her uneasiness with his requests (because she still wanted to wait until they were fully married,) he would say, "Well, you must be cheating on me because if you won't do (these things) with me, it means you're doing them with another guy."

She asked me if my boyfriend did the same thing (accused me of wrongdoing if I didn't do what he wanted,) and I told her, "No way!!! And if he did, I sure wouldn't be talking to him anymore."

It wasn't just about sexual topics either -- he pretty much put her under lock and key and accused her of cheating whenever she wouldn't do what he wanted. After all, he was going to be her husband, and she was going to be his wife, and therefore, it was Biblical that she obey him in all things. Proving her loyalty and Godliness to him meant doing whatever he said or wanted done.

Dana did not know that she was in a manipulative, abusive situation because she thought this was what every man did. I might be wrong, but I think this was exacerbated by the fact that she grew up in the South, and she felt that it was "ladylike" and "proper" to just go along whatever her man said.

She eventually broke up with John and some time later, found a man of God who treated her with real respect and care.

One of the primary reasons I wrote this thread is because I was thinking of Dana.

She was young and in her first and only serious relationship up until that time, so she had no way of knowing that things could and should be different except by talking to another woman.

If I can, I hope to prevent this from happening to anyone else we can reach who doesn't realize that this kind of treatment is wrong.

Hey now, don't pin it all on being from the south. Everybody I know would recognize those red flags and advidnse that girl to hit the ejector seat button on that relationship.

Seriously, I understand what you mean. But I think some surroundings, whether cultural or regional, keep its members even more prone not rocking the boat for the sake of being "polite."

Hello Everyone,

Some recent thoughts in the threads have me thinking about topics that I feel are very important to discuss.

First of all, I want to make a disclaimer: I am not, in any way, shape, or form, arguing with Biblical principles, as I believe in them wholeheartedly. Second, please keep in mind that as a woman, I am writing from a woman's perspective because most of the people who have opened up to me are women. I am not in any way, shape, or form trying to say that all men are abusers. One of the purposes of this discussion is to hopefully encourage men to share their knowledge and experiences with this topic as well.

Occasionally here in Singles, we will have the opinion expressed that the best or ideal Christian wife is one who stays at home. I myself was raised in a family where all but one of the women stayed at home when the kids were young. The one woman who kept working full-time did so because they were farmers and there was no other choice. Two women in my family were lifetime stay-at-home wives/mothers, while the others went back to work once the kids were older.

However, I have seen some instances (outside of my family) where the women were forbidden to talk to anyone else and could not go anywhere without the husband's permission. I'm thinking of a co-worker whom I invited out to lunch, which went fine until we got up to leave. She begged me to go home with her to meet her husband because (I finished her sentence,) "I (Seoul) have to prove to him that I actually exist and that I'm not a man, don't I?" She nodded yes. She was terrified of what he would do because he would automatically think she was out with another man.

Ironically, in nearly every case I have encountered, including this one, the controller who had to have their thumb on the other person at all times was in fact the one talking to other people (usually at his own work or online) and doing the cheating. It was a classic case of, "Do only as I tell you to do, but I get to do whatever I want."

But it all starts with, "I'm (asking, wanting, demanding) that you do these things (check in with me, not talk to anyone else, come home immediately, not work/have contact with others at all) because I'm protecting you. I'm doing my job of looking out for you." It may start out as good intentions, even Biblical. But what happens if it eventually crosses over the line of "protection" and soon becomes control -- and abuse?

I also think about the two girls I used to go to Lutheran high school with. One had done everything they told her to do, including finding an apartment and moving there in secret. He still found her, and emptied a gun into her head. The other was a prominent host on a local TV station -- they were very well-known as the perfect Christian family. Her husband shot and killed her at their home in front of their children, the oldest of whom at the time was 11. Being surrounded by a Christian community is no guarantee that everything will be alright.

I think of another friend whose parents divorced because her mother was kept at home with no job, and when her father started an affair with someone he worked with, he told her that since he made all the money, he would be keeping both women for himself and she would just have to put up with it. She promptly divorced him and raised the kids by herself, even though she hadn't worked since high school. But he had thought he had her under control because he had cut her off from the world with no source of income but him.

These are the things I think about when I hear of situations, whether it be a man or a woman, who is being "kept from others" (not allowed/is discouraged from having friends or social circles) and has to constantly "check in" with their partner "for their own good" or "protection."

A family unit consisting of a husband providing for a wife and family is perfectly Biblical. But when does it start to slip downhill into abuse?

Likewise, I want to keep the discussion open for the other side of the coin. I believe many men are in abusive situations but society and cultural standards keep them from speaking out or seeking help. I would like to know about how we can be of aid to them. I have known many men who were abused within their families, by both men and women, and I've had guy friends whom I have tried to encourage to leave what I observed to be abusive relationships (dating situations, not marriages.)

I must say that I am someone who would encourage anyone who is in a situation, married or dating, that threatens their own or their children's safety, to seek out a separation at the very least. I know there is much debate about this, but my own personal belief (speaking for only myself) is that God does not want us to be stay with someone who is dangerous to us or our children, even if married. I know there are very differing viewpoints about this topic, so if they do come up here, I'm hoping we can still keep the conversation respectful.

On the flip side, I'm sure that others here have also seen men in abusive situations. For example, when does someone's nagging cross over the lines into emotional and psychological abuse? The Christian community often talks about men being able to provide for their families -- but where is the line between a woman or spouse being provided for vs. someone taking advantage of the other person for money?

The reason I'm hoping we can talk about these things is because many of the people I have met in abusive situations thought what they were going through was normal. They were in utter turmoil over what they were going through, but they thought it was just part of relationships and that everyone else was going through it too (meaning that they thought should just keep quiet and never "complain" about it.) And since they were not allowed to talk to anyone else, they didn't have any other frames of reference to know that what they were going through was abuse.

I know this thread may bring out a variety of perspectives and experiences, but I sincerely that hope we can talk about this with a common goal of trying to prevent others (especially young people) from getting into, or staying in abusive relationships that just might be disguised as "Biblical principles" -- that are being grossly misinterpreted.

Thank you so much for sharing and God bless you!

I certainly don't want to make it sound like a regional issue.

I do think though that her Southern upbringing had her thinking that she couldn't be rude or impolite in any way.

She hadn't talked to any of her friends, family, or church about it - just a rowdy friend she met from the North. 🤪🥶

Seriously, I understand what you mean. But I think some surroundings, whether cultural or regional, keep its members even more prone not rocking the boat for the sake of being "polite."

Where's the line between a spouse that doesn't care where their spouse is... and one that cares "too much"?

I assume most people don't like 'keeping tabs' being kept on them. But I wonder if some women in particular would be disappointed if their spouse kept no 'tabs' at all? Thoughts?

Where's the line between a spouse that doesn't care where their spouse is... and one that cares "too much"?

I assume most people don't like 'keeping tabs' being kept on them. But I wonder if some women in particular would be disappointed if their spouse kept no 'tabs' at all? Thoughts?

Where's the line between a spouse that doesn't care where their spouse is... and one that cares "too much"?

I assume most people don't like 'keeping tabs' being kept on them. But I wonder if some women in particular would be disappointed if their spouse kept no 'tabs' at all? Thoughts?

I think blatant neglect occurs when the spouse doesn't care about you at all (for example he doesn't care about your work troubles, friendship troubles, your health concerns, etc.). However, if he does not ask me where I was or what I did, I would not really consider that neglect. Say I went to the mall for the day and I told him, if he didn't ask me what shops I went to or what I ate, I wouldn't mind. Keeping tabs on me is asking for specific details when what I say doesn't really matter. If he doesn't ask me how my day went, I am okay with that. However if I wanted to talk about something and he isn't listening, that is neglect.

I imagine you meant more like if every time I want or need to talk about something he won't listen that is neglect. Because for most guys it seems that sometimes not picking up on when their woman needs to talk is par for the course.

Aye. This is where the "I'm not a mind reader" phrase is played a lot. Come on ladies, help us out. Sometimes you have to give some pretty deliberate, blatant clues.

This brings up yet another set of boundaries that seems to be frequently blurred -- What are the borderlines between blatant neglect, healthy balance, and obsessive control?

It crosses a line when one party obeys from fear instead of love. It crosses a line when the other party must keep control by enforcing dire consequences for disobeying.

I know many men who leave the bar early, or bypass the bar, because their wives don't want them to stay there too long. Their friends tease them about being afraid of their wives, but they do it because they love their wives and they don't want to make them unhappy.

Then there are the henpecked husbands who don't dare set foot in the bar because they can't bear the thought of the flak they'll get from the wife if they do. That's not love. That's control by force.