What does John 3:16 mean?

When I was 14, back in 1973, my brother-in-law nagged me to go to church until I finally agreed to go once, on the condition that he stop bugging me. He agreed.
At that time in my life, I was excelling in becoming a full-blown hippie. Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll!
To the best of my knowledge, Jesus was the Christmas baby...and had something to do with the Easter Bunny. I did believe that there was a God...I just never thought about it much. Though I was fascinated with Greek mythology.
We went. It was horrible. They dressed funny. They talked funny. They acted funny. Though there was nothing funny about the music. After the service, I said to my friend, "Good, it's over...let's get outta here!" He said, "Wait a minute," got up from his chair and quickly walked to the front of the room. He started talking to 2 guys in pin-striped suits and white shoes. Then they came back to me. Groan!
After they introduced themselves to me, one of them opened a bible and read John 3:16 to me. As he did, I saw somewhere else. About 3 feet in front of me was a set of curtains. A hand holding a sword thrust through the curtains and plunged the sword deep into my belly. I instantly knew what I'd just heard was true! I was astounded at what had just happened to me!
The guy then explained to me about sin, death, Christ's atonement, and what I must do to be saved. He led me in a prayer as I bawled my eyes out. This was my first snot ministry time! Lol
During February 2000, I attended a 5-day ministry retreat. The Lord met me powerfully and this is where my discipling began in earnest!
"I died, He lives and dwells inside of me
I am finally assured of eternity
He never left my side, not even when I died
He was with me in the dark...right by my side
Faithful is His name!" Hallelujah! -tc

Thanks that’s all Biblical as far as I can see and supplements the discussion nicely.

I agree with what you said, but possibly for different reasons. We can find a myriad of other verses that plainly say that those who do not believe in Jesus are destroyed. We can begin quoting those later if that’s necessary, but I assume all here know about those. For now I just want to look at the plain language of John 3:16 if that’s okay.

What I am seeing is this is about spiritual life and death since all people eventually die physically . Alternatively, this could be speaking of the resurrection to life. Eventually there is a resurrection to incorruptible immortality according to Paul in 1 Cor. 15

We often miss the clear meaning of "eternal life" as well.

John 17: "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

I put it in red because Jesus spoke it.

Dear Oblio,
Your experience at age 14 was when you received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Even your vision of the "sword" was true.

When Christ comes to us the first time (Early Rain), He calls us out from the world and we enter the "church". At that time, He strikes us a blow with His sword.

These verses apply:
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

The Word of God is written in Christ's spiritual language. In His language, His words carry meanings that are different than what "man's wisdom teaches" (1Cor 2:13). In spiritual language, the "sword" is the Word of God and "Fire" is the judgment of Christ.

When Christ first comes to us with the Early Rain, He uses His sword to slay our spiritually marred, carnally minded nature we have from birth. But this first blow by His sword does not kill us. The reason it doesn't is because Christ leaves us "spiritually blind" at the time of the Early Rain. And because of our blindness, we can and are easily deceived by Satan. From Satan's deception, our deadly wound is healed and we devolve into a worse creature. Paul calls this worsen spiritual condition a Man of Sin.

Here is where Christ teaches this truth of what happens at the time of the Early Rain:

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Unclean (evil) spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin.

After the new believer devolves into a Man of Sin, their deadly head wound that came from the sword of Christ at the time of the Early Rain is healed. The blow by the Sword of Christ was intended to slay their carnal nature (Old man) but because of their spiritual blindness and Satan’s deceptions, the wound is healed and their Old Man continues to live.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

As a result, they are still represented by the Seven-Headed Beast of Revelation. In case you are unaware, the Seven Headed Beast is a symbol for mankind in our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition. After our deadly head wound is healed, we have truly "fallen away" and become a Man of Sin who follows the ways of Satan instead of Christ. We are trying to serve two masters. This is the one and only sin (works) that leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). From this death, we cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). It is for this reason that Christ must come to us a second time if we are going to be saved in this age. When He comes (Day of the Lord), Christ brings the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit), which is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes us to "fall away". We use this false belief system to justify why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why we are not. We falsely believe that we must be wiser or smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, we take credit for making the right "choice" to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit is not ours. It was Christ's work within us that caused us to accept Him as "Lord". In our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, no man will even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Him as Lord.

Scripture clearly says that unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him “Lord”.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only after Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit can we call Christ “Lord”. Paul’s Damascus Road experience is the part of the “pattern” (1Tim 1:16) whereby we all must follow in order to be “called out from the world”. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Christ “Lord”.

After a Called Out believer has “fallen away” and is no longer saved, Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit). If He doesn't, they will die in their sins and receive their “portion” with the unbelievers. If the Called Out believer is one of the “few” (Mat 22:14) and has been "chosen from the foundation of the world", Christ will come to them a second time. And when He comes, He brings salvation with Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Christ “appeared” the first time in the flesh and took away the sins of the world on the cross. When He comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain, He does not “appear” to them but remains hidden from their understanding. The Early Rain event is not an “appearance”, it is a visitation. When Christ comes to a Called Out believer with the Latter Rain, He “appears” to them at this time. When He comes, He fully heals their spiritual blindness and the Light of His appearing will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become. It is at this point when the new child of God is born. I will also explain this in more detail later in the paper.

In 2000, it is possible that what you experience then was the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only you can know for sure.

I received the Latter Rain on Oct. 8, 2005. My testimony from that time is posted in my profile. You might read it and see how it compares with what you experienced in 2000.

I would be happy to answer any questions if you have an interest in continuing this discussion.

Joe

Amen. So it wouldn’t be possible to know God if someone is eternally separated from Him, I guess? That means eternal separation from God would be the opposite of eternal life, but rather death.

Furthermore, is it possible to keep God’s commandments while separated from Him? What’s to stop someone from loving their neighbor as themselves or loving God with all of their strength in hell? In the place of departed souls, a kind of hot prison I guess, they probably don’t love themselves much or have a lot of strength so the bar to keep those commandments seems like it’d be low.

I can't speak for others...so I'll speak for myself.
I am what I am, a child of the great I Am
By the blood of the Lamb, the Lamb who was slain
I'm precious in His sight, the apple of His eye
I am fearfully and wonderfully made

You knew me, you formed me
You chose me, You called me
You love me just like You love Yeshua
You delight in me! Hallelujah!

I had just crucified my list of sins. I actually saw my little cross in the Spirit!
Then I repented of my ancestors' sins, one person at a time, on both sides of my family, going back 4 generations. When I'd finished each side, it was like a bucket of water was dumped on me!
I then put on some music, the song, "Fire, There's A Fire," and lifted my hands to worship the Lord.
A window, or portal, opened up in front of me. I saw into the third heaven. I saw Yeshua, on horseback, riding down the bottom of a snow-covered mountain. He was perhaps 50 yards from me. I could see a subtle blue glow emanating from Him, and I knew I was seeing His Majesty!
He turned the horse towards me and as He started riding, the window closed. I was once again in my motel room and I was aware of a heavy weight on me. It slowly pushed me over backwards until I fell. It took about 15 seconds for me to gently be placed on the ground.
As I lay looking upwards, I saw what appeared to be a tongue of fire swoop into the room. It flew around for a second and then it crashed into my chest. I started shaking violently as what felt like a geyser welled up from inside of me. As it burst out of my mouth, I heard myself, for the first time, speaking in an unknown tongue!
After a few minutes the shaking ceased and getting up off of the floor, I got dressed and went for a coffee at the cafeteria.
- March 16, 2000 while I was attending the "Five Days Of Healing" seminar put on by a local parachurch ministry.

It's worse than you think

A New Commandment was given by Jesus that equalizes the love of God with that of His disciples.

In the Old Commandment, if you didn't love yourself much you wouldn't love others much either. The New commandment states: Love others as I have loved you. That's a tall order that's impossible without Christ.

And Jesus is now the fire in your heart ,nice story dude,

Dear Oblio,
After that day, did your understanding of scripture open up to you? Did nearly everything that you knew before as "truth" change? Did you recognize that the loaf of bread you had been consuming was secretly "leavened"?

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Here is a teaching from Christ on when a believer has their spiritual blindness healed. It is the time of the Latter Rain when Christ gives His chosen Elect "eyes that can see".

Mark 8:15-21 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

In these verses, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on spiritual language - His language. At this point in time (before Pentecost), the disciples have not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and were spiritually blind. They simply could not understand what Christ was teaching them. After Christ’s short lesson, He ends it by asking them this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22-25 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, He goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in "type" by healing a blind man. This "type" is the same "type" which Christ uses with the Old Testament events to teach His spiritual truths.

In verses 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. The “spit” (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This is the same time when an unbeliever is "called out from the world" and becomes a Christian. After Christ asks him what he could see, the blind man looks up and says that he could see men walking as trees. "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for Called Out believers of which the blind man is now one. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted. This “first healing” of the blind man reflects our spiritual condition when we first enter the Church. At that time, we are left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted.

Peter says this condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again but this time, Christ has the man “look up”. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit (second coming of Christ) when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents this spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth. From that moment onward, we know that the blind man is a “type” of a Called and Chosen believer.

Joe

lol I ment to quote this post., Wonderful story and Jesus is the 🔥 fire in your 💖 amen 😊

Wow. I had sadly forgotten about that verse tucked away at the end of the chapter. I don’t think it gets the attention it deserves nor is it even repeated anywhere else in the New Testament as far as I remember.

But they mention loving your neighbor as yourself continually post-crucifixion, even after Jesus’s farewell New Commandment.

The second greatest commandment is mentioned in Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, James 2:8.

Not to minimize what Jesus said at all because sometimes things don’t get the attention they deserve, but why isn’t it repeated to “Love others as I have loved you?”

I never thought of how you put it, but yeah, that about describes it. I was a carnal believer, then the Lord transformed me, and I became a disciple. He was, and is, maturing me.

It should be clear that everlasting punishment awaits the unredeemed in the form of everlasting fire where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

(Matthew 25:46; Matthew 25:41; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).

Also, the smoke of their torment ascends for ever and ever (Revelation 14:9-11); which indicates that they are never entirely burned up.

It’s not clear now and it won’t be clear at the judgment because the Bible doesn’t just say what you’re saying it does.

I think the problem with that interpretation is that it can’t be ruled out that the “everlasting punishment” is not death. I mean, we can find verses that just say there is such a thing as eternal destruction or a second death so that’s actually clearer to me.

Ezekiel 18:20
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin isdeath; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Thess. 1:9
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Hmmm looks like only the smoke rises forever. Doesn’t say the torment is forever. Please handle Revelation with kid gloves. Do not add anything to it or take away from it.

@Runningman, you are simply contending for false doctrines.

I have made my case for eternal torments and I believe that it will stand for those who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to them.

I’m doing the same thing that you're claiming to be doing. Of course you give yourself a far more generous portion of grace than you do me. Why do I have be be preaching a false doctrine when I just repeat what the Bible says? Help me see it your way and I’ll consider if I want to believe in eternal torment again.

It shouldn't be based on whether you want to or not...

But since the scripture clearly teaches eternal torments, you really should come over to the side of the truth.