What does John 3:16 mean?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
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#41
It should be clear that everlasting punishment awaits the unredeemed in the form of everlasting fire where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

(Matthew 25:46; Matthew 25:41; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).

"Forever"

Apollumi
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#42
It shouldn't be based on whether you want to or not...

But since the scripture clearly teaches eternal torments, you really should come over to the side of the truth.
I believed in eternal torment for years because I wanted to because everyone else seemed to believe in it. Then I studied the Bible on the matter and have concluded eternal torment for most people not in the book of life is a false doctrine.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#43
I believed in eternal torment for years because I wanted to because everyone else seemed to believe in it. Then I studied the Bible on the matter and have concluded eternal torment for most people not in the book of life is a false doctrine.
I think that you have been deceived by the enemy, my friend.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#44
I think that you have been deceived by the enemy, my friend.
John 3:16 says that the only way to have eternal life is through faith in Christ. If you have faith in Christ you won’t perish. Perish means be killed or destroyed. This isn’t difficult bro.

Do you feel something within you that gives you fear and confusion about this? That’s the enemy. God is not the author of confusion nor has He given us a spirit of fear. I have no fear, do you?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
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#45
Thank you for your response. I guess my question was somewhat rhetorical, as well as being inquiring of other's opinions. Reading through your response, one take out scripture for me is, and I paraphrase: "Whoever transgresses by not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, is not known by God". Now, what exactly is it to 'abide in the doctrine of Christ'? Isn't it, 'denying the temptations of the flesh and the sinful ways of the world daily, obey all of Jesus' teachings, and live a lifestyle similar to His? Don't I have to do all those things to be saved, or have I got that wrong?
doctrine is what a person teaches . Jesus taught Gods true doctrine that saves us

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Old Testament promised the messiah would come and speak Gods true words of life and light. Jesus words and teachings are his doctrine to simplify it he taught man how to love other people Gods way.

what we do to abide in his doctrine is believe the gospel and let the lord tewch us how to love upright pleasing lives to God. We’re not perfect but are his disciples we learn from the gospel how to live and love others

what John said there about abiding in his doctrine is a summary of this

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. ( has both Ferber and son )

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬

the gospel progresses as we learn his word and apply it to our selves. We begin as children. It knowing much but as we hear the gospel and believe it Ganges our mind from what it was , to what agod wills it to be based on our belief in him

believing the thkngs Christ taught us able to change what we used to believe about God , ourselves and others and what Gods Will for us in this world really is

Jesus explained these things in the gospel and said for us to believe and follow after his ways that’s abiding in his doctrine or abiding in his love or abiding in him

“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3-4, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what Jesus taught is what makes us grow from babes into adults in Christ we have to hear first and believe and the faith that produces in us is able to change us because it becomes what we believe about God , ourselves , others , the world and his kingdom it changes what we think and believe to what he said is true
 
Feb 5, 2022
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#46
I never thought of how you put it, but yeah, that about describes it. I was a carnal believer, then the Lord transformed me, and I became a disciple. He was, and is, maturing me.
Dear Oblio,
Yes, spiritual maturity (producing fruit) is the last portion one travels on the pathway to salvation. What I am asking though is did your understanding of the meaning of scripture change? Have you come to understand that there are no Orthodox Christian doctrines that are true? A few of them have some elements of truth but a large number of them have no true at all - especially the doctrines of Free Will and Hell. The loaf of bread we eat after receiving the Early Rain from Christ is fully mixed with leaven.

Christ is the Savior of the world. Mankind's salvation is solely the responsibility and work of Christ to complete. Mankind is saved because it is God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind's "will" always conforms to God's "will". God rules supreme.

The Old Covenant was given to prove to mankind that we cannot save ourselves. It is man's works and it is physical and outward.

The New Covenant is Christ's works and it is spiritual and inward.

Most Christians will try to mix their own works with faith. It cannot save a person. Christ said you cannot serve two masters.

When a believer does this mixing, they "fall away" and cannot be renewed by repentance. It happens to everyone. For those who are "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time and given them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Without this baptism, everyone will die in their sins.

Here is where Christ teaches when we come out from being under the Law:

John 8:3-10 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

A “woman” in scripture represents God’s wife who is mankind.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

From the very start of Adam’s creation, his marriage relationship with God was based upon faith. However, Adam was created spiritually weak and spiritually blind. He quickly became carnally minded. Because of these flaws, Adam soon sinned by committing adultery with Satan (believing Satan instead of God). Rather than going to God in faith and asking for forgiveness, Adam turned to the ways of Satan and tried to hide (apron of fig leaves, filthy rags) his adultery through his own “works. Because of Adam’s adultery with Satan, the marriage ended and God cast him out of the Garden. Ever since that time, God has been working to restore His marriage relationship with mankind.

In the story from John 8:3-10, the woman represents Adam (all mankind). When Christ first writes in the earth it represents the time when He writes His law in our hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This verse is speaking of the New Covenant which is spiritual.

When Christ first writes His Law of the Spirit in our hearts, it is the time of the Early Rain of the Spirit when we are “called out from the world”. Now, instead of by approaching God by "works", we are to approach Him by "faith" alone. However, shortly after receiving the Early Rain, Satan comes to us and deceives us. This happens because we remain spiritually blind. Because of Satan's deception, we fall away from faith alone and mix in our own works (like Adam did). This is the sin that leads to death and we remain under the Law of Sin and Death. Because this happens, the Pharisees do not drop the stones after Christ first writes in the earth. The Law is still accusing us.

Then in verse 8, Christ stoops down again and writes His Law of the Spirit upon our hearts a second time. This act represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is at this point that Christ heals our spiritual blindness and we come out from Satan’s deception. We begin to walk by faith alone and as a result, the Law of Sin and Death can no longer accuse us. After this change from religion (man’s works) to Faith, the Pharisees drop their stones and leave. The Law of Sin and Death is now of no effect over the woman (mankind) and we are restored to God.

Joe
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#48
Dear Oblio,
Yes, spiritual maturity (producing fruit) is the last portion one travels on the pathway to salvation. What I am asking though is did your understanding of the meaning of scripture change? Have you come to understand that there are no Orthodox Christian doctrines that are true? A few of them have some elements of truth but a large number of them have no true at all - especially the doctrines of Free Will and Hell. The loaf of bread we eat after receiving the Early Rain from Christ is fully mixed with leaven.

Christ is the Savior of the world. Mankind's salvation is solely the responsibility and work of Christ to complete. Mankind is saved because it is God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind's "will" always conforms to God's "will". God rules supreme.

The Old Covenant was given to prove to mankind that we cannot save ourselves. It is man's works and it is physical and outward.

The New Covenant is Christ's works and it is spiritual and inward.

Most Christians will try to mix their own works with faith. It cannot save a person. Christ said you cannot serve two masters.

When a believer does this mixing, they "fall away" and cannot be renewed by repentance. It happens to everyone. For those who are "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time and given them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Without this baptism, everyone will die in their sins.

Here is where Christ teaches when we come out from being under the Law:

John 8:3-10 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

A “woman” in scripture represents God’s wife who is mankind.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

From the very start of Adam’s creation, his marriage relationship with God was based upon faith. However, Adam was created spiritually weak and spiritually blind. He quickly became carnally minded. Because of these flaws, Adam soon sinned by committing adultery with Satan (believing Satan instead of God). Rather than going to God in faith and asking for forgiveness, Adam turned to the ways of Satan and tried to hide (apron of fig leaves, filthy rags) his adultery through his own “works. Because of Adam’s adultery with Satan, the marriage ended and God cast him out of the Garden. Ever since that time, God has been working to restore His marriage relationship with mankind.

In the story from John 8:3-10, the woman represents Adam (all mankind). When Christ first writes in the earth it represents the time when He writes His law in our hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This verse is speaking of the New Covenant which is spiritual.

When Christ first writes His Law of the Spirit in our hearts, it is the time of the Early Rain of the Spirit when we are “called out from the world”. Now, instead of by approaching God by "works", we are to approach Him by "faith" alone. However, shortly after receiving the Early Rain, Satan comes to us and deceives us. This happens because we remain spiritually blind. Because of Satan's deception, we fall away from faith alone and mix in our own works (like Adam did). This is the sin that leads to death and we remain under the Law of Sin and Death. Because this happens, the Pharisees do not drop the stones after Christ first writes in the earth. The Law is still accusing us.

Then in verse 8, Christ stoops down again and writes His Law of the Spirit upon our hearts a second time. This act represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is at this point that Christ heals our spiritual blindness and we come out from Satan’s deception. We begin to walk by faith alone and as a result, the Law of Sin and Death can no longer accuse us. After this change from religion (man’s works) to Faith, the Pharisees drop their stones and leave. The Law of Sin and Death is now of no effect over the woman (mankind) and we are restored to God.

Joe
My problem was that I had a stony heart with walls of protection that the enemy had deceived me into building. I went through a storm to knock them down (Ezekiel 13), laying bare the foundation in my heart. Which exposed a root of rejection that I'd received in the womb. I dealt with this through repentance.
As the Lord did heart surgery on me, I was able to understand much of the word in a way that I'd been blind to before. A good foundation was laid in my heart. "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone." - Ephesians 2:20
"The Divine Plumb Line" was the main body of teaching. All based on scripture under the illumination of the Holy Spirit. It was a turning point in my life. Not that I haven't had troubles since. But the storms come, they blow, they howl, they scour, they do their worst, and when they pass, I'm still standing.
I've had ongoing health problems for years and it's no fun. But He is with me and we get through it. I've found understanding why I am in this state through the writings of a guy named A.W. Tozer.
 
Feb 5, 2022
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#49
My problem was that I had a stony heart with walls of protection that the enemy had deceived me into building. I went through a storm to knock them down (Ezekiel 13), laying bare the foundation in my heart. Which exposed a root of rejection that I'd received in the womb. I dealt with this through repentance.
As the Lord did heart surgery on me, I was able to understand much of the word in a way that I'd been blind to before. A good foundation was laid in my heart. "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone." - Ephesians 2:20
"The Divine Plumb Line" was the main body of teaching. All based on scripture under the illumination of the Holy Spirit. It was a turning point in my life. Not that I haven't had troubles since. But the storms come, they blow, they howl, they scour, they do their worst, and when they pass, I'm still standing.
I've had ongoing health problems for years and it's no fun. But He is with me and we get through it. I've found understanding why I am in this state through the writings of a guy named A.W. Tozer.
Dear Oblio,
Your comments are very poetic but you still didn't any my question and you certainly don't have to if you don't want to.

Scripture says that we "live" (meaning the pathway of salvation) not just by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. A portion of the pathway to salvation we all must travel involves becoming "worse than before" (Mat 12:43-45).

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Prov 16:4 The LORD will make all to give an answer: yea, even for the evil of the Day of Evil.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Mankind's Day of Evil (opposite of the Day of the Lord), is the time we spend between the Early and the Latter Rains. It is a time of drought. Elijah prophesied about this time of drought when He caused it not to rain for 3 1/2 years.

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

This 3 1/2 years is a spiritual symbol for the Day of Evil. It is our time of "falling away" and becoming "worse than before". It is the last 3 1/2 weeks of Daniel's prophecy of Seventy Weeks before salvation comes to us. It is also called 3 1/2 days, 1260 days, 42 months and time, times and half a time. It is a significant event on the pathway to salvation. All mankind will experience it, either in this age or the final age.

The "many" who are called but not chosen will remain in this evil worsened spiritual state until they physically die. They will later be resurrected to judgment with the unbelievers. For those chosen, Christ will come to them a second time before they die and bring the Latter Rain. With this rain (Holy Spirit), they will have their spiritual blindness healed and their Man of Sin will then be revealed to them. They will find that they are the Man of Sin. It is not a person but a worsened spiritual condition. But with the appearance (understanding of Christ through scripture) of Christ which happens immediately with the healing of one's spiritual blindness, the Man of Sin is destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearing. This worsened spiritual state is caused by Mystery Babylon mentioned in Revelation. Mystery Babylon is the religious component of our carnal nature. It is what teaches us to approach God by our own "works". It will be destroyed in an hours time upon the appearance of Christ (Latter Rain). Then our sun will be darkened and the moon will turn to blood. This is not referring to the actual sun and moon. It means that the believer who just had their spiritual blindness healed, will no longer receive their truth (light) from this world because they are now receiving it from Christ (brightness of His appearing).

The truth of scripture is hidden in spiritual language. Until Christ comes to a chosen believer, they are going to believe much like other non-chosen Christians. It is only when Christ gives the chosen believer "eyes that can see" will they be saved. This happens by the work and power of Christ so that no man can boast.

The Man of Sin was destroyed within me in 2005 upon having my spiritual blindness healed. At that time, when I "looked back" and saw who I had become under Satan's deceptions, I was humbled (the reason for the Day of Evil). That is when I learned godly humility and learned to trust Christ for my every step along the pathway of salvation. I entered into His "rest".

Does any of what I presented above make sense to you? Remember, we must build upon the foundation of faith that Christ gives us. Each stone is the Word of God (Christ) which we must receive within ourselves. We build a little here and a little there, line upon line, piece by piece.

Joe
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#52
Look, Joe, I'm not trying to be poetic. And I'm not sure exactly what question you are asking me. You talk a lot and you elaborate a lot.
I'm a simple man. I also have a brain injury and find it difficult to follow advanced thinking. Perhaps this is why I'm not getting you.
When the Lord wants to communicate something important or profound to me, He often does it in supernatural ways. He gets through to me what He wants to get through to me. Let's leave it at that. Shalom.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#53
Joe, perhaps you should talk with Rhomphaeam, as he is quite the intellectual.
 
O

Omegatime

Guest
#54
John 3:16 is the gift of God just by having faith
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#55
Perishing is something that someone might do who is burning up in fire.

As with the equation y = 1 / x.

Where y = the wholeness of the individual, x= the elapsed amount of time.

y continues to decrease and never reaches zero while x continues to increase.

when x = 1,000,000, y = 1 / 1,000,000.

Still not zero.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#56
[
The Lord shows me what He wants me to see.
amen that’s good trust !!! and he always will as you are prepared for more he will bring that To light In You so as to not overload us with burdens and weights he knows just what we’re able to hear and what load we can bear as we grow he will continually make us stronger and wiser

“O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:9-11‬ ‭

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭23:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

….My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:14-16, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s our shepherd our teacher and guide through life , our closest friend and brother , our loving father and God.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#57
Let Your living water...flow through me
Let Your Holy Spirit cause the blind to see
The riches of Your mercy and fulness of Your grace
That one may be forgiven and learn to sing Your praise

For You are a good God, yes You are
A strong and loving Father
And You are a counsellor to me
Wisdom to my soul
And You are the best friend I've ever had
Much closer than a brother
A precious cornerstone
A sure foundation for me -tc

This is what John 3:16 means to me.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,448
113
#58
We often miss the clear meaning of "eternal life" as well.

John 17: "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

I put it in red because Jesus spoke it.
Interesting, and I agree with you.

Eternal life is not first and primarily to just live forever, or even to be in heaven with Jesus forever.

The key word (the noun) is life (zoe). Life is Jesus, who said that he is the "life" - (John 14:6). Thus to know him is eternal life.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#59
The thing is . . . some people [did] believe in Jesus, but they weren't granted Eternal Life. Why?
John 3:16 says believe in Jesus to get eternal life. You're saying if you believe in Jesus you might not get eternal life.

Let's pretend I'm a random who knows nothing about the Bible, but I'm interested in becoming a Christian. You tell me "If you believe in Jesus you won't necessarily be granted eternal life." What's to keep me from turning me back and finding a different god who will keep his promises? Honest question. This might be good to know when preaching.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#60
Let's pretend I'm a random who knows nothing about the Bible, but I'm interested in becoming a Christian. You tell me "If you believe in Jesus you won't necessarily be granted eternal life." What's to keep me from turning me back and finding a different god who will keep his promises? Honest question. This might be good to know when preaching.
The Spritual Circumcision of Christ . . . is the answer.

Have you received the Circumcision of Christ? Does Colossians 2:9-15 explain why you have been totally Transformed by Christ? Does Colossians 2:9-15 explain why you are a "New Man"? Do those verses explain why you reflect the Glory of Christ more and more and more?

I sure hope that the answer is yes, because if there is no Transformation, well . . .