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Under the definition for sinner that a sinner is "someone who sins"...
Those who are born of God are not sinners (1 John 3:9).
Under the definition for sinner that is a sinner is "someone in whom the element of sin dwells"...
All of us fall under that category (Romans 7:18, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 John 1:8).
The element of sin does not have to have dominion in the life of the one in whom it dwells (Romans 6:14)'; for it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).
Those who are born of God are not sinners (1 John 3:9).
Under the definition for sinner that is a sinner is "someone in whom the element of sin dwells"...
All of us fall under that category (Romans 7:18, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 John 1:8).
The element of sin does not have to have dominion in the life of the one in whom it dwells (Romans 6:14)'; for it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).
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amen to that brother !!!
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
Romans 8:12-14 KJV
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-21 KJV
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:5-16 KJV
To mortify is to render as dead we’re being called to a place where the word becomes a reality in our lives and really does set us free from sins control over our lives it begins in our belief but then blooms in our actions and becomes material and real
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
Romans 8:12-14 KJV
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-21 KJV
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:5-16 KJV
To mortify is to render as dead we’re being called to a place where the word becomes a reality in our lives and really does set us free from sins control over our lives it begins in our belief but then blooms in our actions and becomes material and real
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No one claimed that here. It isn't sin that is separated, it is sinful nature.
Wheat and chaff is certainly about the righteous parts of us being purified from the unrighteous parts. A separation of the spiritually fruitful parts of us from the unfruitful parts. Winnowing. How do you account for the imagery of winnowing?
Agreed on that point but the important highlight is that it isn't necessarily a constant rate of change and there are clear points where sudden changes leading to completed sanctification are described.
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." - 1 Cor 15:50-52 KJV
Wheat and chaff is certainly about the righteous parts of us being purified from the unrighteous parts. A separation of the spiritually fruitful parts of us from the unfruitful parts. Winnowing. How do you account for the imagery of winnowing?
Agreed on that point but the important highlight is that it isn't necessarily a constant rate of change and there are clear points where sudden changes leading to completed sanctification are described.
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." - 1 Cor 15:50-52 KJV
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your post 39:
After resurrection and purification, one is left with an immortal body. In the same way that the wheat is separated from its chaff in the parable of the wheat, supposedly one will also be separated from sinful nature. And if that isn't the case, it is an interesting hypothetical that the inhabitants of the kingdom after earth and heaven fade away would retain a (silenced) sinful nature. We come to the question of the fulfilment of sanctification (hypothetically after resurrection and purification) and whether sinful nature is removed or present afterwards.
you made that comparison. so I guess you must be no one. again, that parable is not about an individual.
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ” Matthew 13
nobody was winnowing in that parable. the tares were to be gathered and bound ... not winnowed...in bundles to burn them
There are different parts of scripture that add context to the metaphor. The winnowing aspect is absolutely about purification of the individual.
"His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” - Matthew 3:12 NIV
"His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” - Matthew 3:12 NIV
but not a part of that parable 
winnow away, but that parable, again, speaks of bundles. not the same
maybe ask yourself why Jesus didn't use winnow instead of bundles
winnow away, but that parable, again, speaks of bundles. not the same
maybe ask yourself why Jesus didn't use winnow instead of bundles
Tares and chaff are not the same thing. Tares are plants that looks similar to wheat but do not produce the fruit while chaff is the undesirable husk that exists around the fruit in wheat. Yes, the tares are tied together and burned. The wheat is collected, purified, and then the remaining fruit is brought into the barn (the impure portion is burned). Tares represent those unable to produce the spiritual fruit of righteousness while the wheat chaff is just an undesirable component of the wheat that is removed. The reference to wheat and chaff is by its nature a purification description. It's hard to wrap one's head around unless one is familiar with old fashion farming techniques.
Back to the conversation at hand... to clarify: John the Baptist's description of wheat, winnowing, and burning of the chaff necessarily means that "self" is divisible if a stalk of wheat represents a person. If "self" is divisible and there are categorically parts that are saved and parts that are not saved. If you agree so far, let's explore the implications. If you don't agree, why don't you agree?
well thanks
want to add to it?
want to add to it?
well thanks
want to add to it?
want to add to it?
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