Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

Would you please read both verses together.

3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Vs 3 speaking of the inward man, it says plainly, "you died".

The "your life" of vs 3. is found in vs 4. Ie, not you, but as it says, "Christ, who is our life".

Christians do not go straight to heaven (3rd) upon death, but instead sleep in the grave until Jesus comes, iow, "appears" (second Advent), and "then" (in answer to "when", vs 4) we are raised to life or translated alive and go with Him in "glory", just as John 14:1-4 says, among other places.

hmm.

you say life and death are mutually exclusive
you say everyone is annihilated upon death
you say we are dead in Christ

so aren't you saying we don't exist?

both verses together → i am hidden in Christ; when He appears i will also appear with Him

'hidden' isn't 'annihilated'

i do not cease to exist unless I AM ceases to exist.
i believe Him; He is my life, and i will never die unless I AM is unfaithful

Read it again. Two deaths are mentioned. Also the word "believeth" matters.

Straw man. Not my position. You simply did not address my position, and instead made up a position for me, and called the made up position 'false'. Well, "Duh!", you made it up. I don't believe your made up position of my position. I believe my actual position.

Posthuman, etal. are actually teaching the old heresy that the resurrection is past already, though not the physical, but a spiritualization of it by their immortal soul/spirit theology.

resurrection pertains to the body.
whoever has the Son has life.

that comment was meant for mr phone.
he preaches that all are annihilated.
he stated that even Jesus was annihilated.
that is the OP topic.

not every conversation is confrontational

@ChristianSubMissionary

it's a long thread. you just jumped into a conversation that has been ongoing for dozens of pages.

where did tele-person say Jesus was annihilated?
i'll help you:
in this post -- https://christianchat.com/threads/interpreting-the-parable-of-the-rich-man-and-lazarus-its-really-good-news.203594/post-4751108

in my perception, you do not know what you are talking about.

The time came when the beggar died, and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. (Luke 16:22)

Tertullian says, “When by force of death the soul is snatched from the weight of the flesh that closed it in, it trembles with excitement to see the face of an angel, the summoner of souls, realizing that its eternal abode has been prepared.”
Ephrem imagines the confusion of a man when he sees the heavenly powers just after death: “When the armies of the Lord show themselves and when the divine commanders bid him to leave the body behind, he shakes and trembles at the unaccustomed sight of these figures.”
On the other hand, angels also have a consoling effect for the faithful at the moment of death, keeping demons at bay:

Gregory the Great says, “The hymns of the angels fill the soul with so divine a joy, that it does not notice the sufferings of death. And during its voyage toward heaven, the angels scatter the demons who try to bar the soul’s advance.”
Aloysius Gonzaga (a Church Father, though not an ancient one, living from 1568–1591) taught that when the soul leaves the body, it is accompanied and consoled by its guardian angel so that the soul can present itself confidently before the judgment seat of God.
The angels escort us upward toward Heaven and God’s judgment seat:

John Chrysostom says, “If we need a guide in passing from one [earthly] city to another, how much more so will the soul need someone to point the way when she breaks the bonds of the flesh and passes on to the future life.”
Ephrem sees the angels “taking up the soul … and carrying it through the upper air.”
Gregory notes that the angels of paradise are asked by the lower angels to permit the soul to enter there.
Strangely, there is little mention of the presence of angels while we are at the judgment itself. Perhaps it is because this is a personal matter, just between our soul and the Lord. It seems likely that each of us will need some purgation. St. Paul speaks of a kind of fire that will both purify and refine us:

Each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

As to this purgation, one ancient source (“The Apocalypse of Paul”) speaks of a man lifted up to a mystical vision of a river of fire; he asks an angel what it might be. The angel tells him that if anyone is impure yet repentant, he is led forward, first to adore God, and then by command of the Lord handed over to Michael and other angels, who “baptize” him in the river of fire and lead him to the City of God. At this point, it would seem that the guardian angel intercedes before God and seeks help among the people on earth to pray for the soul in its care. After the purifications have been completed, the guardian angel leads the soul into Heaven.

The angels in Heaven reserve special attention for virgins and martyrs:

Eusebius says that virgins will not walk toward the King, they will be carried by the angels.
Of the martyrs, Origen says that the angels look at them with wonder and greet them as conquerors. The angels sing, “Who is this coming from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength?” (Isaiah 63:1)
St. John Chrysostom says, “The martyrs go up to Heaven surrounded and preceded by the angels as an escort. When they arrive in Heaven all the holy powers from on high run forward and stand before them, trying to see their wounds. They receive them with joy and embrace them. Then they form an immense procession to lead them to the King of Heaven … taking part in mystical songs … leading them into the Holy of Holies.”
Surely, every soul is greeted with joy by the angels and saints, and they are caught up into the great movement and “dance” of love between the members of the Trinity.
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/angels-iv

You responded to my post, my reply, my comment. You did not once mention Phoneman777 in that response.

As for confrontational I do not believe you, at all. I find you utilizing tactics I would never employ.

The topic of the OP is actually Luke 16's parable of the rich man (Judah) and "Lazarus" (the poor who needed help).

Brother Phoneman777 position can be addressed by himself, I am sure. My response was not answering as him or for him, and neither is this response.

I am fully capable of answering for myself, by God's grace and truth.

The topic is ultimately strayed from Luke 16, however I still address all of the distracting sidebars and non scriptural material put out by yourself and others, so that all are without excuse.

Simply saying that your comment, in direct response to my reply, without either of us mentioning Phoneman777, was to him (after the fact), does not then, nor now address what I did say. Your reply simply shifts the goal post, yet again.

The word "believeth" was stated as mattering because it involves a present ongoing and abiding belief.

You believe something to be sure, but it is an incorrect faith. In other words you hold to a misunderstanding in that belief.

I will address this further in the other portion of your reply.

No you simply stated something after the fact. Please see my previous reply on this.

I did not simply "jump in". I responded directly to your response to my reply. Phoneman777 was not a part of either of our replies to one another.

As stated, brother Phoneman777 is capable of answering for himself, and none of my replies have ever answered for him, nor intend to be an answer for him unless he himself personally approves of a particular response, and that goes for this reply.

You will have to specifically ask Phoneman777 to address your concern and to clarify his statements if you have issue by asking and replying to him and his posts.

When Jesus died, humanity (that which is mortal in nature) died, not Divinity (for that would be impossible, for Divinity is inherently immortal). Jesus was dead and in the tomb, not leaving there until commanded of the Father to arise. The Bible states that the tomb was where "the Lord lay" for those "three days". Job confirms this prophetically.

Does resurrection only pertain to "the body", according to scripture?

The Bible says:

1Jn 5:11: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

It says, "this life is in his Son."

It is not in us inherently.

That you obviously did not understand my reply (as seen by your reply) does not mean that I do not understand what I said. The statement that I made is accurate and correct.

In other words, the spiritualism, or spiritualization, of your (and other immortal soul/spirit theologists) position places people (persons) not in the grave but as existing already alive and well in heaven, or alive and in ill health in a never ending torment of a fiery sort (whether you believe that to be physical, spiritual or both).

According to scripture, it is only by resurrection (or translation without seeing (experiencing) death) and being taken up by Jesus and the angels that one enters Heaven. However, your theology places persons who have died into heaven before the physical resurrection (which is why I stated that your theological position was/is a spiritualization of the old heresy). It is simply the old heresy repackaged, attempting to bypass or circumvent the charge as laid by Paul under inspiration of the Holy Ghost. It is an Ad Hoc position stemming from the original heresy.

You, without knowing, are simply imbibing a past heresy with an alteration (not made up by yourself) that seeks to get around the charge of heresy and incorrect faith in a theological matter involving the state of the dead.

Jesus, from Genesis it foretold, yes even promised in eternity past, that He would split death into two for us, taking the wrath of God upon himself, which is why there exists the sleep of the first death for all*, and second death for some**.

do you also believe this means Jesus was annihilated for 3 days and 3 nights?

that a freshly created copy of the annihilated soul of Jesus was assigned an identical personhood with the original Jesus who has ceased to exist?