Do you really believe in Jesus?

@Evmur
I have expanded on my original statement significantly. And added more clarification of my intentions. No sir, no cult, no hidden motives, no personal agenda. The info I added are here, and here.

@Evmur
I have expanded on my original statement significantly. And added more clarification of my intentions. No sir, no cult, no hidden motives, no personal agenda. The info I added are here, and here.

You make many mistakes. You say Paul did not know the Lord's prayer suggesting he had no knowledge of the gospel preached by Christ and forget Paul's close association with Luke and John Mark. You also overlook the fact that Paul was taught by direct revelation.

Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election.

Why would anybody claim to be born again, saved if it were not true? do such claims at all improve our status among friends and our prospects at work? do people have a high regard for our intelligence because we say we are saved?

Thank you for the feedback CherieR.
I actually did not say "requirements". I said: "... should have passionate feelings springing from within for wanting to do ..." There is a big difference. If I don't have that passionate feeling springing from within to want to know more about God, then I should re-examine my status. Am I a true believer?

I think you are coming from a good place and don't sense any condemnation or anything...




Spend some time on these forums...the people that you are interacting with don't agree with that mentality. I'm sure those who do are a minority on here, at least I hope so.


You mentioned a marriage as a metaphor for our walk (if I'm understanding correctly) and I can't "really" comment on that since I haven't ever been married but don't marriages wax and wane? Highs and lows? Times you feel close and other times distant?

There's a lot to be said here for sure though.


Certainly I don't think you should treat your walk like an overseas spouse who you only send a picture to a couple times a year and despite overtures for you to join them, it would be too difficult to drop everything and why don't they just come to where you are?

There is definitely a mentality floating around (at least for me at times) that God should be where we are and not us be where HE is. Is it selfishness? Is it simple immaturity? I don't know.

It seems that it would be so easy because he sees where we are to meet us there but there's more to it I have yet to fully process so I digress.

Some of the time it's difficult to know where he is specifically but generally speaking we can defer to the written word for sure...like loving our neighbor and working out our own salvation.


I've not been in the best place with my walk over the last few months so take it for what it's worth. I get incredibly tired of certain aspects of the flesh and it does affect things. Quite exhausting. I'm open to elaborating further if you'd like.

Can you message me? I'd be interested in the elaboration.

The Bible does not have a list of requirements to must meet in order to say one believes. I believe there is a simplicity to faith in Jesus.

@Evmur
Thank you for the feedback, I agree not the best choice of words about Paul. I'll fix that.
But also please consider this new nugget I found this morning and cried when I did, here.

You make many mistakes. You say Paul did not know the Lord's prayer suggesting he had no knowledge of the gospel preached by Christ and forget Paul's close association with Luke and John Mark. You also overlook the fact that Paul was taught by direct revelation.

Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election.

Why would anybody claim to be born again, saved if it were not true? do such claims at all improve our status among friends and our prospects at work? do people have a high regard for our intelligence because we say we are saved?

Election does not pertain to salvation but to discipleship, discipleship is what we are elected unto, chosen to be His church, His people.

Election does not hinder or exclude anybody from being saved ... does that cheer you up a little?

So when you said, "Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election" @#42 (all to the thread author) what you perhaps should have said is only if a reformed Calvinist wants to talk about election - right? Clearly your teaching gives him some squeeze room to feel better about reformed doctrine. I doubt it will make him feel any better, however, he's ignoring myself - those stern Calvinists! And those wooly Pentecostals.

I do believe our brother is in earnest ... that we are a chosen people is the doctrine that gives me the most joy.

... nobody else ever picked me for anything much ...

I believe he is being earnest as well. I agree with your joy at being chosen in Christ - especially given the trouble we can face from the enemy of our souls - and not least because we stumble so often. That doctrine has been my comfort many times and I have found that in the end it has been that great love and compassion of the Father in His sovereign will that has had me repent when almost nothing else seems to do it - even knowing I am in sin when I am in sin hasn't always been sufficient. Thats a sad reality of the flesh - but an outstanding gift of God.

alleluia ... I have for a long time thought that we are chosen because we are the very worst of sinners, the most hopeless cases ... prolly the dumbest.

I do believe our brother is in earnest ... that we are a chosen people is the doctrine that gives me the most joy.

... nobody else ever picked me for anything much ...

@Rhomphaeam and @Evmur
Thank you for the feedback.

@Rhomphaeam,
I am still learning the meaning of "Reformed Calvinist". So are you saying that the difference between Calvinist and Reformed-Calvinist is Calvinist say all saved are elect? and Reformed-Calvinist say only those called to discipleship are elect? And the rest of the Christians destination is agreed upon by both Arminian and Reformed-Calvinist?
And is pre-destined the same as elect?

alleluia ... I have for a long time thought that we are chosen because we are the very worst of sinners, the most hopeless cases ... prolly the dumbest.

I keep telling brethren that I went to a special needs school having been diagnosed with educational maladjustment between 1969 and 1976. They think I must be joking. What I rarely tell them - because they always refuse the worst of sinners label - is that my mind was healed and restored when I got saved in prison in 1984. The Lord did that to make me a pain in the neck to those who imagine that intelligence is gold sovereign when set alongside the filthy rags of knowing you are a rank sinner. Whereas intelligence isn't with.a bean until it comes under grace. Show me a rank sinner and a man who knows his mind is worthless to God - no matter how refined and carefully manicured for the Seminary - and I know a man who will always fall back onto his humility and thankfulness when he falls even very badly. Grace - not Favour.

I keep telling brethren that I went to a special needs school having been diagnosed with educational maladjustment between 1969 and 1976. They think I must be joking. What I rarely tell them - because they always refuse the worst of sinners label - is that my mind was healed and restored when I got saved in prison in 1984. The Lord did that to make me a pain in the neck to those who imagine that intelligence is gold sovereign when set alongside the filthy rags of knowing you are a rank sinner. Whereas intelligence isn't with.a bean until it comes under grace. Show me a rank sinner and a man who knows his mind is worthless to God - no matter how refined and carefully manicured for the Seminary - and I know a man who will always fall back onto his humility and thankfulness when he falls even very badly. Grace - not Favour.