The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

The rapture happened pretrib

Th0se with dirty robes that needed washing( the innumerable number) are those left behind as depicted in mat 24 and 25

There are no postrib rapture verses in the bible.

OBVIOUSLY they have been RAISED UP TO HEAVEN so they have been resurrected.

True THEY HAVE NOT RETURNED WITH CHRIST FROM HEAVEN BUT THEN AGAIN NEITHER HAS CHRIST, SO I AM MISSING YOUR POINT about 'standing up {on the earth' bodily resurrection}

Where are you getting that definition for resurrected? I can SEE HOW that one would TOTALLY fit in and SUPPORT your beliefs and YOUR BELIEFS ONLY,

BUT what about

1453. egeiró
Strong's Concordance
egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up
Usage: (a) I wake, arouse, (b) I raise up.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to waken, to raise up

awake, lift up, raise up
Probably akin to the base of agora (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. Rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence) -- awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.

They are ALREADY in heaven. They will be returning with the KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS at the 2nd Advent.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

DON'T BE SAD ABOUT WHO YOU THINK IS DEAD, THEY AREN'T THEY HAVE RESURRECTED AND ARE IN HEAVEN ALREADY. THEY WILL BE RETURNING WITH CHRIST.

THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN. them asleep, them bring


| am aware there is the Hath God said? version also them asleep die and remain DEAD with death feeding on them, and not really going to heaven to be with Him where he is at all until He returns pre trib and only then He will be brining them to the Father so then they will be being brought back with Him when He returns SO THE DEAD CAN RISE AGAIN? THE ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING CAN AGAIN? BE CHANGED?

IF ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED AND TAKEN TO HEAVEN HOW IS THERE ANY ALIVE AND REMAINING THE NEXT TIME? an enigma

Instead we have decided to NOT GO WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN AND INSTEAD GO WITH to 'stand up on the earth from the earth at the time He does return' but ISN'T REALLY returning and isn't really gathering because it is BEFORE the workings of SATAN and because He is only coming to get them and then take them to heaven so that they don't get perfected like He did because they have judged themselves SAVED already.


I don't know, I can never figure it out from what man says and man won't put it in Gods words.

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


There was no man. The Lamb was slain. The Lamb resurrected. The Lamb took the book. The Lamb opened the seal. The WORDS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK were read.


WHEN DO YOU SUPPOSE THIS TOOK PLACE OR DO YOU SEE THIS AS SOMETHING THAT IS DONE AFTER THE FACT?

IF THE FOUR WINDS CAN'T BLOW UNTIL EVERYONE IS SEALED WITH THE INFO FROM THE BOOK... I'll let you answer

You haven't shown anything substantive yet. Can you?

Prove that I said "well after armageddon" by citing the post #. I don't believe you.

I've been saying all along that the Second Advent ENDS the Trib by ending the battle of Armageddon.

So prove me wrong by citing the post # that you "claim" I said well after Armageddon.

lol.

1 Cor 15:23
2 Thess 2:1

Because the bible teaches there is just a single resurrection of the saved.

Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15.

Since these verses have been quoted many times on this thread, your claims are nothing but lies. Obviously.

And you haven't even tried to explain what ANY of these verses teach, other than what I believe they teach.

The reality is that there are no pretrib rapture verses in the Bible. Or you would have been quoting them in every one of your posts.

Since you don't have, all you do is "lol" and other nonsense.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Praise ye the Lord, WHO REIGNS WITH CHRIST FOR 1000 YEARS? Not those who "ESCAPE TRIBULATION"

but THOSE WHO OVERCOME AND ENDURE TO THE END.

THOSE some 'PRE TRIB'S delight in mocking

THOSE GOD CHOOSES TO SIT ON THRONES AND LIVE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST ARE THOSE WHO
DO NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST, - would need to be here
DO NOT WORSHIP HIS IMAGE - would need to be here
DO NOT RECEIVE HIS MARK UPON THEIR FOREHEADS - would need to be here
DO NOT RECEIVE HIS MARK UPON THEIR HANDS - would need to be here
ARE BEHEADED FOR THE WITNESS OF JESUS
ARE BEHEADED FOR THE WORD OF GOD



SO FOR ALL THOSE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR A PRE TRIB RAPTURE, KNOW YOU ARE NOT ON THAT LIST.

ACTUALLY, just THE BELIEF IN A PRE TRIB RAPTURE MAKES SURE YOU CAN NEVER SIT ON A THRONE. WHY?
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

BUT PRE TRIBBERS WILL NOT HAVE ANY OF THOSE WORKS. HOW IS THAT FAIR? HOW IS THAT JUST?

another problem for pre trib - IF WE HAVE FAITH IN THE LORD AND ARE SAVED BEFORE THE TRIBULATION WE DON'T SIT ON THE THRONES AND RULE WITH HIM BUT IF WE COME TO BELIEVE AFTER THE 'CHURCH HAS BEEN RAPTURED' then we do rule and reign with Him?? How could that be possible? Would seem to be better to not come to faith until after the 'church' is pre trib raptured

Just another place, in the multitude of places, that pre trib doesn't work. Every where I turn the pre trib rapture is at odds with what is written, I can't find one place it isn't.

This concept of ‘tribulation wrath’ that is associated with the Tribulation Period suggests that all of Daniel’s 70th week is the wrath of God. There is no mention of a concept of ‘tribulation wrath’ in Dan. 9:27. I understand why pre-trib proponents have done this, but it is misleading. The Bible tells us that while we are not appointed to wrath, we shall have tribulation. The rapture can take place within Daniel’s 70th week without contradicting passages regarding the wrath of God/Day of the Lord.

Tribulation and wrath are of course different (thlipsis vs orgē). The wrath of God encompasses the 6th-7th seals, the 7 bowls, and will end at the seventh trumpet.

John 16:33 In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
1 Thess 5:9 God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pre-trib scholars are convinced Jesus was only speaking of unsaved Israel in Matthew 24. For them, this justifies the rapture of the church before Daniel’s 70th week. If Jesus was speaking to his disciples as representatives of the church in Matt. 24:4, then they will be present during Daniel’s 70th week. The Jew's time of trouble will be preceeded by the 'birth pangs.' The 70th week is about Christ's redemptive work on Israel's behalf. In my view, the timeline for believers in Revelation and the one for Israel will converge at the midpoint/abomination. I don't think dispensationalism exempts the church from the 70th week.

There is no mention of the wrath of God in the first 5 seals. Although I understand why some pre-trib proponents associate the first five seal judgements with the wrath of God/DOL.

The emergence of the antichrist is allowed by God. Antichrist will be given authority to cause the earth dwellers to worship him. Revelation 12:12 mentions that ‘the devil has come down to you in great wrath.’ God is allowing the antichrist to have control. When God's wrath comes he will take power away from antichrist.

The Lord allows the antichrist to come to power as a judgement. If the first 5 seals are God's wrath, then God would be responsible for martyring his own children. God will allow this martyrdom to occur, as he allowed Job to be tested by Satan. The fifth seal martyrs cry under the altar, 'When, O Lord, will you avenge our blood?'

Before the Lord begins to judge the earth, he will remove the righteous, because in 1 Thess 5:9, Paul says that "God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain deliverance in Jesus Christ". God's wrath is poured out during the Day of the Lord, and we are not appointed unto wrath. The question of when the Day of the Lord begins is the matter at the heart of the rapture debate. The full extent of Daniel's 70th week should not be equated with the Day of the Lord in my view.

The church represented by the 24 elders is seen present in the throne room of God worshipping the Lamb (Rev 5:9-10). They are present there before the Lamb opens the first seal of judgement. I agree with you that our harpazo event must come prior to the first seal, prior to the wrath of antichrist and the wrath of God. I view the harpazo as a ‘pre-seal/judgement’ event, just not a ‘pre-tribulational' event (prior to Daniel's 70th week).

This is a works based faith. Salvation is all about the works of Christ and has zip to do with our works. Works neither earn us salvation, nor do they prove salvation.

Once again, another thread where we have those who cannot discern the body of Christ from the nation of Israel...

... and according to your viewpoint, neither will the vast majority of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [having existed since the first century-Eph1:20-23] "have any of those works" EITHER, because Revelation 20:4b refers solely to those BEHEADED / KILLED during the LAST 3.5 yrs before Christ RETURNS to the earth
[whereas 20:4a speaks of the same persons as in Daniel 7:22 ("and judgment was given to the saints of the most High"); IOW, distinct persons from those shown in 20:4b],,,



...well then, TOO BAD for Great Aunt Gertrude who DIED well-before those FINAL 3.5 years came to be... she will have to MISS OUT!!!





[NOT!]






[not to mention what I've said before about the "WAS FOUND" word in Rev5:4 ]

There is no such thing as a 'works based' Salvation. That is a man made up thing.

THERE has been NO CHRISTIAN 'under the law' EVER. NOT ONE. You probably couldn't even find a Christian today who knows all the LAWS and what they consisted of.

There has never been a Christian that wanted to build a temple and start killing animals for the forgiveness of sins. There are no Christians that have come out of 400 years of captivity who need to know how to run their own nation. CHRISTIANS follow the laws of the lands they live in so all of those laws don't apply either.

SO THIS WHOLE WORKS BASED whatever is just that, what ever to GIVE WORKS A BAD NAME AND TO LAY GUILT UPON THE EWES WHO KNOW NO BETTER.

Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the words of God. We COME to repentance and the GIFT OF SALVATION is given to us. IT IS THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK FOR IT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

So the thing that good Christians should do, is QUIT SAYING THOSE WORDS, as they lead to WORKS somehow being put in a bad light and WORKING FOR GOD IS NOTHING BUT GOOD. IT IS ALL THAT WE TAKE WITH US. IT IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT KIND OF VESSEL WE COULD BE. BEING A GOOD CHRISTIAN AND FOLLOWING THE COMMANDMENTS MAKES US MORE HOLY AND THERE IS ONLY GOOD THINGS THAT COME WITH THAT.

CHRISTIANS today are fully aware of the work CHRIST DID. What Christians today are not aware of is what that 'work' used to mean for us and how blessed we are to be living under GRACE.
If you have questions about this, start a thread, and I would discuss it in depth if you would like.

And we have people dividing what Christ died to end the division of

Some of us see "WRATH [*orge]" words in Ezekiel 38:18-19 as part of the SECOND SEAL WARS occurring toward the BEGINNING of the "7 years" [i.e. in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period of Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c]; and another correlation elsewhere, preceding THAT even [i.e. with the FIRST SEAL, prior to the SECOND SEAL]... but I won't go into all that.

--*orge [Septuagint] https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/38/18/t_concl_840019






Ezekiel 38:18-19,[21(Rev6:3)] / 39:7 (as I've pointed out in past posts) having parallel language to that of what we see regarding JOSEPH (in Gen45:1 "there STOOD NO MAN with him, while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO his brethren") in the SECOND YEAR of his "SEVEN YEAR FAMINE" (when there were 5 YEARS yet remaining, v.6), where Ezek39:7 states, "So [/in this manner] WILL I MAKE MY HOLY NAME KNOWN in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" (the phrase "My people Israel" being key, here)

MY VIEWPOINT? THOSE ARE GODS WORDS NOT MINE. TAKE IT UP WITH HIM.

WHY ARE YOU ADDING other generations to the discussion? If you would like to speak about them then by all means lets do just that but DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH because you don't like the words of GOD.

The ONLY ones who will have to MISS OUT is the pre trib rapture generation who wish to exit before the work is done. The two people who were taken to heaven were only taken ONCE THE WORK WAS DONE.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

WHERE DOES THAT SAY HE IS GOING TO COME FOR IT BEFORE ANY TROUBLE STARTS?

THE HEAD COULD BE PERFECTED BUT YOU DON'T THINK THE BODY SHOULD ALSO? IF THE BODY ISN'T PERFECTED LIKE HE WAS THEN HOW IS HE TO PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF WITH OUT SPOT OR BLEMISH?

IF HE COMES IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, HOW MANY OF 'THE BODY' DO YOU THINK WOULD BE WITHOUT SIN? LIKE LIGHTENING THERE ISN'T A MOMENT TO REPENT. THINK ABOUT IT. IF LIGHTNING STRUCK RIGHT THIS MINUTE WOULD YOU BE LOVING YOUR BROTHER AS YOU DO YOURSELF? WOULD THERE BE ANY FALSE TEACHINGS GOING ON?


28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

PRE TRIB WHERE?


Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:
17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled
22 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL IS THE SAME FOR ALL GENERATIONS, THE LAST ONE INCLUDED. NOT ONE OF THEM EVER WERE OFFERED A 'GET OUT OF TRIBULATION' FREE RIDE. SO NEITHER IS THIS ONE BECAUSE GOD IS NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS.

IF IT WERE POSSIBLE YOU WOULD SHOW ME ONE VERSE IN WHICH THE 'CHURCH' IS TAKEN TO HEAVEN PRE TRIB.

The body of Christ is made up of the many members who gather together in 'churches' to worship GOD.

The nation of Israel, is the land GOD gave to the 12 tribes.

The House of Israel is the 10 Northern tribes when the nation was divided, gone into captivity 200 yrs before by Assyrians then scattered to the world blinded to who they are. They are also know as the lost sheep who Christ came for and will not lose one of.

The House of Judah is the 2 Southern tribes gone into captivity by Babylonians. Then went back to build the temple under Cyrus (who God named) for Christs return.

The whole house of Israel is when referring to all the tribes

Jacob is also when referring to all the tribes

The land of Israel is where it is located.

Jerusalem is the place God married.

The church is made up of Jew and Gentile made one.

I've stated repeatedly, that "the Church which is His body" has experienced "persecutions and tribulations" [ex: 2Th1:4; 2Ti3:12] (and suffering, etc) ever since its existence in the first century [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)];

...we are NOT waiting for the specific, future, LIMITED time-period [i.e. the "7 yr period"] IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE IT! NO!


We (the Church which is His body) HAVE BEEN experiencing that, throughout the past near-2000 years!!

Agree with you here. Curious to hear who you think the ''saints" are in the following is referring to:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.