Can we pray amiss?

Artios1 · Jan 22, 2022

I did not use the word required.

I was attempting to answer objectively and not get into the specifics of forgiveness. I did this by comparing what had changed after Pentecost when the fullness of Christ’s accomplishments were revealed, in comparison to what Jesus spoke in Matthew regarding prayer.

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

~Compared to~

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

In the Lord’s prayer.... forgiveness was contingent (conditional) upon forgiving others……. We have been (past tense) forgiven through Christ’s accomplishments, and we forgive others because God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you....me...anyone, who is born again.

studentoftheword · Jan 22, 2022

Back to Prayer -----there is protocol for answered prayer -------

IF WE Pray ----- with the Right Motive ------and Right Attitude -------we will get answered prayer

The true Christian is to Agape their enemies ---so if you harbour any unforgiveness or grudge against anyone --you are causing a blockage to answered prayer -----

We are to base our Prayers on God's Word ----His Will for Us----- not our will or what we want -----SO PRAYING GOD"S Word is IMPORTANT ------

1 John 5 ESV
That You May Know
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.

15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

Jesus said this -----If you ------NOTICE ---IF YOU _______CONDITION -Folks -------IF YOU ___BELIEVE and DON:T DOUBT ---------you will receive what you ask for in prayer ---

Matthew 21:18-22 NIV

Jesus Curses a Fig Tree
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.
20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

-I say ---------SO no doubting and have Faith that you have received what you pray for as soon as you pray it -------

I say -----Keep Fear out of your prayer life ------Fear will definitely block your prayer ------

So we see that------- IF WE ---CONDITION HERE FOLKS _____

ONLY _IF WE =====FORGIVE ALL WHO HAVE WRONGED US THAT INCLUDES HOLDING A GRUDGE ----

IF WE ---ASK WITH RIGHT Motive and Attitude ---

IF WE ---PRAY HIS WILL ------

IF WE ----DO NOT DOUBT ------

IF WE --PRAY IN FAITH and BELIEVE WE HAVE RECEIVED ------

IF WE -------KEEP FEAR OUT OF OUR PRAYER LIFE ------

IF WE ____PRAISE AND THANK GOD FOR OUR ANSWERED PRAYER AS SOON AS WE PRAY IT -----

All these things matter in Getting answered prayer -----other wise your Prayer will run Amiss -------

Treasury of Scripture
Therefore I say to you, What things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.

I say -----The you shall have them is God's promise -------IF YOU ------

JStates · Jan 22, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I agree with him 100%. But don't rip his words out of context in order to make him say something he never meant. That's what the leftists are doing to this man.

'I have love for Muslim people who are victims of the ideology of Islam and I am committed to telling them the good news of Jesus Christ.' -Keith Piper

He's not advocating the violent destruction of Islam. He's saying it's a blight on humanity that needs to be resisted.

There are 900+ modern English language Bible versions. MOST of them - the VAST majority - were assembled using the methodology of two Anglican priests, Westcott and Hort. These men, who were not born again Christians, utilized corrupt manuscripts that the early church had historically rejected in their bible version. The great uncial codices are rotten to the core, but the disparities in these manuscripts allow MEN to choose what to include and exclude from their manufactured bibles.

Not a subject for a casual discussion in this thread, but something I have studied extensively. I don't care if you think it's a cop out. I don't see your NIV "bible" as authoritative. Did you know one of the editors was a lesbian, which is why the NIV takes a soft stance on homosexuality? Did you know that for over ten years, the publishers of the NIV have refused to correct an OBVIOUS error in their version which makes SATAN out to be the morning star?

I will always yield to the teachings of the Word properly expounded and applied. But not a polluted "bible."

SophieT · Jan 22, 2022

Artios1 said:

same thing

just sayin

Definition of malefactor

1: one who commits an offense against the lawespecially : FELONHe favors harsh punishment for chronic malefactors.
2: one who does ill toward another, a sinister malefactor abusing his power— Iron Age

SophieT · Jan 22, 2022

supposed Christians telling other Christians that we do not have to bother with what Jesus said because He was under OT law

the delusion is strong with some

Artios1 · Jan 22, 2022

SophieT said:

According to the Bible there were two Malefactors and two Thieves (Robbers). I don’t believe God uses words haphazardly.

2 Thieves - Greek = (dyo lēstēs)

2 Malefactors - Greek = dyo kakourgos

Actually, I’m not going into this here ….I don’t want to derail the thread …..maybe I will start a new post.

SophieT · Jan 22, 2022

Artios1 said:

According to the Bible there were two Malefactors and two Thieves (Robbers). I don’t believe God uses words haphazardly.

2 Thieves - Greek = (dyo lēstēs)

2 Malefactors - Greek = dyo kakourgos

Actually, I’m not going into this here ….I don’t want to derail the thread …..maybe I will start a new post.

go for it

Blik · Jan 22, 2022

studentoftheword said:

We are told we will receive whatever we ask for in prayer, and we are told that there are times the Lord will not listen to us. Both are truth, we must figure out how this can be.

I think it is because our Father does not want us to have anything that is not of the kingdom of heaven, God wants us to live eternally with Him. When we are caught up in the world with the problems of the world then God simply wants our attention back to the kingdom of heaven.

studentoftheword · Jan 22, 2022

JStates said:

Did you NOT know that Satan and Jesus were both referred to as the morning star ------I think you need to go back and study the Bible more ----The NIV is right Stating that Satan was referred to as the Morning Star -----Satan and Jesus are both referred to as a lion to ------

As Far as people saying that there are errors in certain Bibles -----well that is for the person to discuss with God ---as God give Grave warnings for people who add or take away words from His word -----wouldn't want to be that person when they die ------I just believe God's word because God says it is God Breathed and is truth -----and because Jesus is the word ----so if you or others want to fight about different Bibles being right or wrong ---go for it ----and talk to God about it --not me ----

Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?

It is interesting to note that the concept of the “morning star” is not the only concept that is applied to both Jesus and Satan. In Revelation 5:5, Jesus is referred to as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In 1 Peter 5:8, Satan is compared to a lion, seeking someone to devour. The point is this, both Jesus and Satan, to a certain extent, have similarities to lions. Jesus is similar to a lion in that He is the King, He is royal and majestic. Satan is similar to a lion in that he seeks to devour other creatures. That is where the similarities between Jesus, Satan, and lions end, however. Jesus and Satan are like lions in very different ways.

The idea of a “bright morning star” is a star that outshines all the others, and Jesus is the One who is called “bright.” Satan was a morning star. Jesus, as God incarnate, the Lord of the universe, is the BRIGHT and morning star. Jesus is the most holy and powerful “light” in all the universe. So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being. His light only exists to the extent that God created it. Jesus is the light of the world (John 9:5). Only Jesus’ light is “bright” and self-existent. Satan may be a morning star, but he is only a poor imitation of the one true bright morning star, Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

JStates · Jan 22, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Did you NOT know that Satan and Jesus were both referred to as the morning star ------I think you need to go back and study the Bible more ----The NIV is right Stating that Satan was referred to as the Morning Star -----Satan and Jesus are both referred to as a lion to ------

As Far as people saying that there are errors in certain Bibles -----well that is for the person to discuss with God ---as God give Grave warnings for people who add or take away words from His word -----wouldn't want to be that person when they die ------I just believe God's word because God says it is God Breathed and is truth -----and because Jesus is the word ----so if you or others want to fight about different Bibles being right or wrong ---go for it ----and talk to God about it --not me ----

Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?

It is interesting to note that the concept of the “morning star” is not the only concept that is applied to both Jesus and Satan. In Revelation 5:5, Jesus is referred to as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In 1 Peter 5:8, Satan is compared to a lion, seeking someone to devour. The point is this, both Jesus and Satan, to a certain extent, have similarities to lions. Jesus is similar to a lion in that He is the King, He is royal and majestic. Satan is similar to a lion in that he seeks to devour other creatures. That is where the similarities between Jesus, Satan, and lions end, however. Jesus and Satan are like lions in very different ways.

The idea of a “bright morning star” is a star that outshines all the others, and Jesus is the One who is called “bright.” Satan was a morning star. Jesus, as God incarnate, the Lord of the universe, is the BRIGHT and morning star. Jesus is the most holy and powerful “light” in all the universe. So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being. His light only exists to the extent that God created it. Jesus is the light of the world (John 9:5). Only Jesus’ light is “bright” and self-existent. Satan may be a morning star, but he is only a poor imitation of the one true bright morning star, Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

I took a bit of Hebrew at UMBC in Baltimore. I can literally look at Isaiah 14:12 and see there is no word "star" in the verse the NIV mistranslates.

The Hebrew word for star - kokab כוכב - is not in Isaiah 14:12. The word for bright or shining IS in the verse, STAR is NOT. See for yourself.

https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/14-12.htm

The editors of the NIV have INTENTIONALLY left a Luciferian heresy in the NIV despite having been asked to change it for over a decade. It's an error, an easily demonstrable and heretical error.

GiveThanks · Jan 22, 2022

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered

studentoftheword · Jan 22, 2022

Blik said:

I say ---Nothing hard to figure out here at all ------

Unbelievers don't get their prayers answered as they are away from God and their sin and iniquity have turned God's face from them so he doesn't hear --Scripture tells us that --I posted the scripture in one of my earlier posts for that ----

Believers will ALWAYS get their Prayers answered as long as they Follow the Protocol given to get answered prayer ------

Blik, ----you said ------and we are told that there are times the Lord will not listen to us----

I say ---there are times when we believers go amiss with Prayer because of ourselves not because God does not hear or listen to us ----- we block the Prayer ourselves by praying with wrong motives ---unforgiveness ---etc etc -----it is ourselves that is to blame for unanswered prayer ----

That is how I see that -----

JStates · Jan 22, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I say ---Nothing hard to figure out here at all ------

Unbelievers don't get their prayers answered as they are away from God and their sin and iniquity have turned God's face from them so he doesn't hear --Scripture tells us that --I posted the scripture in one of my earlier posts for that ----

Believers will ALWAYS get their Prayers answered as long as they Follow the Protocol given to get answered prayer ------

Blik, ----you said ------and we are told that there are times the Lord will not listen to us----

I say ---there are times when we believers go amiss with Prayer because of ourselves not because God does not hear or listen to us ----- we block the Prayer ourselves by praying with wrong motives ---unforgiveness ---etc etc -----it is ourselves that is to blame for unanswered prayer ----

That is how I see that -----

It should be mentioned that NO is a valid answer to prayer!

Paul prayed for his thorn in the flesh to be removed three times, and God's answer was, "No."

studentoftheword · Jan 22, 2022

JStates said:

I say ----God felt He didn't have to answer as Paul already had the answer -------

That is a good example of asking for something that Jesus already accomplished on the Cross ---Paul should have known better than to ask God for something that was already accomplished -for him ---all Paul had to do was to exercise his authority that he already had in place which is God's Grace -----

Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross -----Paul already had the Power ---Ability to stop Satan's attack on him -----so God I think was hoping he would figure it out ----So after God knew he was not figuring it out HE answered and Said ----MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT ---IN YOUR WEAKNESS MY GRACE IS STRENGTH

So God did answer Paul's plea -------------God did His part -----we need not keep asking for what is already in place for us ------we are to know and exercise our authority on what was accomplished for us -----Peace --our well being ----keeping Satan at bay -etc is already in place for us ---

2 Corinthians 12
Context
Paul's Thorn and God's Grace
7or because of these surpassingly great revelations. So to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.

9But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me.…

studentoftheword · Jan 22, 2022

JStates said:

I say -----So you give this scripture from Bible hub ---but there is nothing to indicate this is the NIV Scripture -----Show me where it says this is from the NIV ------

Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
349 [e]אֵ֛יךְ
’êḵHowInterjection
5307 [e]נָפַ֥לְתָּ
nā-p̄al-tāyou are fallenV-Qal-Perf-2ms
8064 [e]מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם
miš-šā-ma-yimfrom heavenPrep-m | N-mp
1966 [e]הֵילֵ֣ל
hê-lêlLuciferN-ms
1121 [e]בֶּן־
ben-sonN-msc
7837 [e]שָׁ֑חַר
šā-ḥar;of the morningN-ms
1438 [e]נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ
niḡ-da‘-tā[How] you are cut downV-Nifal-Perf-2ms
776 [e]לָאָ֔רֶץ
lā-’ā-reṣ,to the groundPrep-l, Art | N-fs
2522 [e]חוֹלֵ֖שׁ
ḥō-w-lêšYou who weakenedV-Qal-Prtcpl-ms
5921 [e]עַל־
‘al-onPrep
1471 [e]גּוֹיִֽם׃
gō-w-yim.the nationsN-mp

The NIV Scripture in the Bible says this ----here are 3 different versions use differ wording but all mean the same thing -----

Isaiah 14:12

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
“How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

JStates · Jan 22, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I say -----So you give this scripture from Bible hub ---but there is nothing to indicate this is the NIV Scripture -----Show me where it says this is from the NIV ------

Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
349 [e]אֵ֛יךְ
’êḵHowInterjection
5307 [e]נָפַ֥לְתָּ
nā-p̄al-tāyou are fallenV-Qal-Perf-2ms
8064 [e]מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם
miš-šā-ma-yimfrom heavenPrep-m | N-mp
1966 [e]הֵילֵ֣ל
hê-lêlLuciferN-ms
1121 [e]בֶּן־
ben-sonN-msc
7837 [e]שָׁ֑חַר
šā-ḥar;of the morningN-ms
1438 [e]נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ
niḡ-da‘-tā[How] you are cut downV-Nifal-Perf-2ms
776 [e]לָאָ֔רֶץ
lā-’ā-reṣ,to the groundPrep-l, Art | N-fs
2522 [e]חוֹלֵ֖שׁ
ḥō-w-lêšYou who weakenedV-Qal-Prtcpl-ms
5921 [e]עַל־
‘al-onPrep
1471 [e]גּוֹיִֽם׃
gō-w-yim.the nationsN-mp

The NIV Scripture in the Bible says this ----here are 3 different versions use differ wording but all mean the same thing -----

Isaiah 14:12

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
“How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Correct, that is not the NIV but the original Hebrew. The NIV contradicts it, which is my point. Actually, as I already mentioned, I reject most of the 900+ corrupt Bible versions. If the NLT and the ESV have the word "star" used relative to Satan, they are heretical as well.

Blik · Jan 23, 2022

JStates said:

Learning to pray with good things following is an important issue, I am hoping can be worked out. Your issue with the word star cannot compare to it, it has no business in this discussion.

In the 60's, 15 people gave themselves to a experiment on the effectiveness of prayer, as they spent a year on issues they had in their life, using prayer to cope. There were two other 15 people groups to compare with them, one group simply praying without studying prayer in scripture. These people proved prayer is powerful, but only as it is done as scripture tells them. They found that it was more important to solve the resentments toward others they had in their life than the words they used to the Lord, for those resentments served as a barrier between them and God.

jb · Jan 23, 2022

Blik said:

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.

Did a blog on this, you can find it Here...

studentoftheword · Jan 23, 2022

JStates said:

So this is what you posted from the Hebrew in biblehub -----just posting this part here ---you say there is not star mentioned ----which is true ------so in this you posted -------

Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
1966 [e]הֵילֵ֣ל
hê-lêlLuciferN-ms
1121 [e]בֶּן־
ben-sonN-msc
7837 [e]שָׁ֑חַר
šā-ḥar;of the morningN-ms
1438 [e]נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ
niḡ-da‘-tā[How] you are cut down

So if you look up the word -------Son --------in this Scripture you have here you find this ----you can check it out here ---
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1121.htm

as relative noun followed by word of quality, characteristic,
Isaiah 14:12 son of dawn -------

So then if you look up -------Dawn -------in the Hebrew ------you find this -----which includes the word STAR ---

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7837.htm

-- Isaiah 14:12 (of star, figurative of royal splendour;

I say ----------So -----By checking the words in the Hebrew you find that the Scripture that has ----Star--- in it ------is rightly there -----So Research is needed -------

I say ---if you spent as much time actually reading and Searching the Word of God and trusting it and putting your Faith into action to practice it ---as you do trying to trying to find Heretical Bible Verses ----you just might find that the Words that are in the Bible are truth and work as they say they do ---

To me I believe MR Satan has you in his deceived grasp ------

As he does many --------

Your just looking for the opportunity to find errors and omissions and like many say that there are many contradictions in the scripture ------they are more concerned about that then being in a close Spiritual Relationship with God -----

That is my opinion on that ----------

SophieT · Jan 23, 2022

GiveThanks said:

this is the heart of the matter

Can we pray amiss?

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