Soul sleep is a false doctrine

Sleeping can mean two things. Literal sleep, or a figure of speech that means to be dead. In various verses, sleeping is being dead not literal sleeping. It is speaking of the human body, not the spirit or soul.

Christ explained that here:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The disciples misunderstood Christ when he said Lazarus is sleeping. The only way for the disciples to understand what he meant was by correcting their error. Don't make the same mistake the disciples made. Scripture is talking about death, not "sleeping". The dead are not "sleeping", they are dead. Their spirit and soul are in heaven or Hades depending on how they lived their lives and even there no one is asleep.


"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" is the figure of speech.
"Lazarus is dead" is the literal and plain speech.

The soul is not dead nor sleeping when the body dies. No souls literally or symbolically sleep after death. Both good and bad, saved and unsaved are fully alert after death.

Souls do not sleep. Sleep is only something a mortal body does. Even when a person's body is asleep their mind (soul and spirit) are not asleep. Even someone in a coma is not asleep in mind or spirit.


The Sadducees believed like some, that when a person dies nothing is left living...only difference is the soul death/soul sleep people believe in a future resurrection while they didn't.

Christ rebuked the idea that a person was fully dead after physical death here:

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were ALIVE despite having died physically.

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Ye therefore do greatly err anyone who believes in this soul sleep false doctrine.

Luk 20:38 He is not a God of dead, but of living men, for to Him are all living."

Biblical ignorance always causes incorrect man made doctrines.



2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

No one is dead or sleeping in heaven with the Lord.

Luk_23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The spirit goes to God!


Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Every eye shall see him, even those that had pierced him though they died long ago. If they were asleep or dead they couldn't witness his return!

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Here John seeing a future event in heaven and he sees the souls of the dead and they are fully alert and talking. They are not sleeping nor are they dead!

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?


How can the dead ask such a pertinent question if they are asleep?



At physical death only the body is dead, nothing else is dead at that time. The counter argument is a remnant of the old errant Sadducee belief that everything was dead when a person bodily died. Christ spoke against that belief and corrected their error yet their belief still exists today in modern Sadducees and Atheists.



All scriptures that speak of the spirit/soul of the dead show them to be fully awake.

A great article on this subject:

https://carm.org/soul-sleep

Sleep is not always a reference to the bodies of people who have died, though sometimes it is.

Consider 1 Thessalonians 4:14:

1 Thess. 4:14
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This says that God is bringing with Jesus those who are asleep before their physical bodies are resurrected. Since God is not bringing dead bodies with Jesus, that’s talking about sleeping souls.

Consider 1 Corinthians 15:51-52:

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice here that those who are asleep are not those who are dead. Since God brings with Jesus those who are asleep before their bodies are resurrected, that means the soul is only asleep after the physical body dies. Notice it says “we shall not all sleep.”

For the record, I’m not totally convinced soul sleep is scriptural but these are some points for consideration and discussion.

I don't agree. Paul is speaking of the dead in Christ at that time of writing. They will not be dead when Christ brings them with him. We know that from this:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

If Jesus leaves heaven and the dead are resurrected there is no room for souls of the dead to be bodiless.




No, the ones asleep are dead. It's the living who will not sleep which means will not die. These change into immortals without dying.


This proves souls of dead are fully awake, alert, talking and aware of things happening on the Earth:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

1 Thessalonians 5:16 “…the dead in Christ shall rise first…” is talking about the resurrection. The dead in Christ who are rising are the bodies of deceased saints.

Yes, sometimes dead bodies are referred to as being asleep, but here there is a distinction between those who are asleep in Christ and the dead in Christ. The dead in Christ are the bodies, the sleeping in Christ are the souls.

The way this reads to me is that God is bringing the sleeping souls of saints to put back into resurrected bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:51 “…we shall not all sleep…” is referring to those who are still physically living. Their soul has not departed their body and returned to God. God is not bringing the souls of living humans with Him because those souls are currently with the bodies of living humans and are not asleep.

I don't agree. Being asleep in Christ is exactly same as being dead in Christ. Sleep is a euphemism for being dead.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


These are interchangeable wordings. It's speaking of same group of those who are dead/asleep. I can see how you have come to your view of it though.

I believe both terms refer to people that had died and is a reference to their souls being able to "stand up" in an immortal body. The reason why a dead body is said to be asleep is because the body can look like a living person who is asleep, minus breathing but lying still etc.



Of course. I am talking about souls of those who physically died as saved Christians. I have a somewhat long study I have posted before shows the dead in heaven resurrect in heaven so they are already physically immortal before they leave heaven to follow Christ. I can post it again if needed.

Also, there's a lot of good scripture in my second post. It would be nice if you addressed each part.

Greetings, sibs

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

- John 5:24 (NKJV)

When a person comes to know and believes on Jesus‘ name, then he will have everlasting (eternal) life. And, if he does not die before Jesus Christ returns, his flesh body will be changed at the sounding of the seventh (and last) trumpet. That’s right; some day, this flesh body will die, and if you believe in the Savior, then you will enter immediately into your soul body that will never die. It is incorruptible and immortal. It will never age, never decay, and never cease to exist. When this flesh age is over at the seventh trumpet, Jesus will return to earth, and all flesh will be done away with. Paul tells us why:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

- 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 (NKJV)

—T

There's a lot to address and most of it will be what I believe are doctrinal corrections. I wanted to focus more on just trying to find common ground by first showing you the scripture that proves soul sleep beyond a shadow of a doubt. I did that very thing with 1 Thessalonians 4: 14, but you chose to interpret it differently and that's fine, too. Meanwhile, my interpretation has not changed either so I have to continue disagree with your posts.

Now, I will mostly just address the scriptures, using scripture, in your second post. To keep this post concise, the reader will need to look up the references I provide, but I will supply all verses to justify the doctrine of soul sleep.

If I understand you correctly, you're conflating dead with sleep when it isn't always used the same way. Dead bodies are sometimes referred to as asleep, but they are always dead (John 11:11-14). Souls of deceased saints are sometimes referred to as sleeping (1 Thess. 4:14), but never referred to as dead(Eph. 2:1-10). Souls of unbelievers are referred to as spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1) and I am not aware of a verse that says they ever sleep (Rev. 14:11).

That being said, so many different references to being dead and sleeping used within similar contexts and in different ways, I understand how that can be confusing sometimes.

This is talking about how God is the God of living souls who are resurrected. Given the context, this is a nod to the "the resurrection of life" Jesus mentioned in John 5:29:
Matt. 22:32 "...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

This reference to being a God of the living is about "the resurrection of life":
Luke 20:38 He is not a God of dead, but of living men, for to Him are all living."

God is the God of the living because He will resurrect them. Since God is a God to the living, when 1 Thess. 4:14 talks about "...them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him..." it is nothing talking about the dead in Christ (spiritually dead) but rather the alive in Christ (spiritually alive) and asleep does not mean literally of figuratively dead (as we already established, those in Christ are not dead), even though G2837 κοιμάω can sometimes mean dead, contextually it means it just means literally or figuratively sleeping. Souls that are with God are resting, idle, or sleeping; that's exactly what Paul taught in 1 Thess. 4:14 and it has to be considered.

2 Cor. 5:8-9 is talking about physical death. Upon physical death, the soul leaves the body and returns to God. Ecc. 12:7 says upon death the soul returns to God. 1 Thess. 4:14 says that God has souls with Him and that they are asleep, not dead. God brings these souls with Jesus at His return.
2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Cor. 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Keeping in step with Ecc. 12:7, the soul/spirit returns to God upon death, including the spirit/soul of Jesus Himself:
Luk_23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Your answer to Rev. 1:7 is that if they are asleep or dead they cannot witness it, but Rev. 1:7 says "...every eye shall see him, and they which also pierced him..." clearly a reference to the Roman soldier(s) who pierced Him before His death so long ago. Notice it says "Behold, he cometh with the clouds..." That's a reference to the return of Christ. As we know, when Christ comes on the clouds He's returning for the rapture and resurrection (Matt. 24:30, Matt. 26:64, 1 Thess. 4:17) and that's exactly how "...every eye shall see him..." when Jesus comes with the clouds.
Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

You said they are not sleeping or dead per Rev. 6:9-10. While I agree that they are not sleeping, yet, they will be resting soon. Look at Rev. 6:11. I will add it below. Ultimately, I am going to have to disagree with you here because you stopped short of providing the full context. Consistent with scriptures, souls go to God to sleep or take a rest.
Rev. 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

This is a reference to the resurrection. "Hell" just means the grave. This is talking about dead bodies literally buried in the ground who will be resurrected and then speak. The dead bodies won't speak prior to the resurrection. Isa. 14:9-10 means the dead bodies will be resurrected and come out of their grave to meet Jesus when He returns. That's Biblically consistent.
Isa. 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa. 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

So what is the doctrine of soul sleep? I hear lots of talk about it, but have never understood what it actually is.

Soul Sleepers believe that the physical body and the soul are one and the same and are inseparable, thus when the physical body dies the soul of man dies with it and is asleep in the grave/earth.

They reject that God created man with a body, soul and spirit even though Scripture clearly differentiates = Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

They reject the clear teachings of Christ that man is fully aware after his physical death = Luke 16:19-31 & Matt 10:28 & Rev ch6 & ch7

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Christ has given Eternal Life to all who belong to Him = "If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’" John 8:51

That's not accurate. The body and soul are not "one and the same." They are distinctly different things as you showed in Heb. 4:12.

That's not accurate either. The Bible does not even say anything like that. Ecc. 12:7 says that soul returns to God. 1 Thess. 4:14 says that God brings those who sleep with Him at Christ's return. Rev. 6:9-11 says that the souls of those martyred saints will rest for a little season. Sleeping is a form of rest.

Um no. Maybe there are different flavors or camps of the soul sleep doctrine, but I certainly don't reject that God created man with a body and soul. I accept whatever the Bible says.

It's not accurate that they reject anything. Have you actually spoken with someone who believes in soul sleep? Everything you're saying, that I allegedly believe in, is not accurate.

This verse is about annihilation not sleeping. I suspect you think sleeping and death are the same thing, they aren't always the same. Please have a look at my post in comment #8 above.

Sleeping is not always death. Sleeping and death are used differently when referring to living and dead bodies and the souls of those in Christ and those not in Christ. Again, 1 Thess. 4:14-16 says that God brings those who sleep in Christ to their dead bodies to be resurrected. Obviously God is not bringing dead souls or dead bodies with Him at Christ's return; these are literally sleeping souls being brought to literal dead bodies, for the purpose of resurrection, just like Paul taught.

#1.) WHY did you do this? Read my post again.

#2.) i was answering the question of what the doctrine of 'soul sleep' is , NOT that i believe it and i clearly refuted it with Scripture.

#3.) YES, i have spoken with those who hold the false doctrine of 'soul sleep' AND it will/may differ from person to person.

You said: "
Sleeping is not always death. Sleeping and death are used differently when referring to living and dead bodies and the souls of those in Christ and those not in Christ. Again, 1 Thess. 4:14-16 says that God brings those who sleep in Christ to their dead bodies to be resurrected. Obviously God is not bringing dead souls or dead bodies with Him at Christ's return; these are literally sleeping souls just like Paul taught."

Paul never taught that Souls Sleep = NEVER, not once = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Paul is only referring to the physical body that has died and sleeps in the earth. - SEE Daniel 12:2

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep = DIED, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/DIED in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/DEAD. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The clear teaching of Scripture here and focus is on the RESURRECTION of those Saints who physically died.

The Saints who DIED(physical dead bodies that 'sleep' in the earth) are in Heaven with Christ right now.
God will bring with Him those who sleep/DIED in Jesus.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”


14And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
Thayer Definition:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
5b) breath of nostrils or mouth

1 Thess
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

In 1 Thess 4:13-18 Paul uses the word 'sleep' only refers to the physical body that died and is 'sleeping' in the dust of the earth.

The souls of those who died in Christ are with Christ now in Heaven, fully awake and aware of their God and surroundings.

And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.
Revelation 6:9-11

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever. Daniel 12:2

That's false.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

This says that God is bringing with Jesus those who are asleep before their physical bodies are resurrected. Since God is not bringing dead bodies with Jesus, that’s talking about sleeping souls.

Paul is only referring to the physical body that has died and sleeps in the earth. - SEE Daniel 12:2

Click to expand...

Read 1 Thess. 4:13-18. The physical body that has died is the body that will be resurrected. Those who are asleep that God is bringing with Jesus are not physical bodies and they aren't dead; they're sleeping. That's what Paul taught.




The dead in Christ are not souls that are dead. That's a reference to the bodies that are dead that will be resurrected. They will rise first.

Correct, you're close to seeing it I think.

As I've already shown in other comments above, this passage from Rev. 6, particularly verse 11, proves soul sleep. Sleep is a form of resting.

"...Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer..."


That doesn't undo what Rev. 6:11 says, "...Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer..." They can't be resting if they are serving God day and night in His temple. Rev. 7:9-15 is a reference to times they are not resting or sleeping. Obviously, just because the doctrine of soul sleep is Biblical does not mean they are always sleeping without exception.

That's false.

God brings with Jesus those who are asleep in Christ. The physical body is what will be resurrected. That's clear from the plain text of the scripture.

Verse 11 proves that soul sleep is a real doctrine. "...And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season..."

Sometimes sleeping is used as a reference to those who are dead.

You're conflating dead with sleep when it isn't always used the same way. Dead bodies are sometimes referred to as asleep, but they are always dead (John 11:11-14). Souls of deceased saints are sometimes referred to as sleeping (1 Thess. 4:14), but never referred to as dead(Eph. 2:1-10). Souls of unbelievers are referred to as spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1) and I am not aware of a verse that says they ever sleep (Rev. 14:11).

That being said, so many different references to being dead and sleeping used within similar contexts and in different ways, I understand how that can be confusing sometimes.

Hardly. The physical body rots and decomposes and feeds earthworms and pushes up daisies. Please think before you post, dear Bro Dave.

There is no difference between the dead in Christ and those who sleep in Christ. "Sleep" is used only as a metaphor for the corpse lying in the grave. The souls and spirits are very much alive in Heaven. So when Jesus brings these souls from Heaven it is for the purpose of uniting them with their eternal, glorious, glorified, immortal, resurrected bodies.