Soul sleep is a false doctrine

[Runningman]

There is no difference between the dead in Christ and those who sleep in Christ. "Sleep" is used only as a metaphor for the corpse lying in the grave. The souls and spirits are very much alive in Heaven. So when Jesus brings these souls from Heaven it is for the purpose of uniting them with their eternal, glorious, glorified, immortal, resurrected bodies.

"...them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him..." are whom the Lord himself shall bring with Him when He shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.

"...The dead in Christ shall rise first..." is talking about the bodies rising from the ground, not the souls descending to the Earth from heaven with the Lord. I've added the bolds and italics below, hoping you can spot the differences.

Plainly stated, the dead in Christ a rising from the ground. The asleep in Christ are descending from heaven. The dead in Christ are not the asleep in Christ though they aren't unrelated. The souls that are descending from heaven with Jesus will be united with their resurrected body that rises from the ground.

1 Thess. 4:13-16
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[DavidTree]

That's false.

God brings with Jesus those who are asleep in Christ. The physical body is what will be resurrected. That's clear from the plain text of the scripture.



Verse 11 proves that soul sleep is a real doctrine. "...And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season..."



Sometimes sleeping is used as a reference to those who are dead.

You're conflating dead with sleep when it isn't always used the same way. Dead bodies are sometimes referred to as asleep, but they are always dead (John 11:11-14). Souls of deceased saints are sometimes referred to as sleeping (1 Thess. 4:14), but never referred to as dead(Eph. 2:1-10). Souls of unbelievers are referred to as spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1) and I am not aware of a verse that says they ever sleep (Rev. 14:11).

That being said, so many different references to being dead and sleeping used within similar contexts and in different ways, I understand how that can be confusing sometimes.

We are both looking at the same Scripture and have the same intent of heart to accept and embrace what was written for our admonition and learning.

Paul clearly knew that there is a separation of our soul from our physical bodies when the body dies.

A.) For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed,
B.) we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
C.) Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

D.) So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Now Back to 1 Thessalonians and the clear teaching from the Apostle Paul where he confirms 3 distinct attributes of Man.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 5:23

Paul never refers to the Soul of Man sleeping but only the physical body/TENT that dies and is put off/shed from the soul/spirit of man.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/DIED in Him.

STOP READ HERE: There are NO Dead Bodies in Heaven - No One is Sleeping in Heaven - Living Souls of the Redeemed are in Heaven.
Paul wrote what the LORD JESUS says: Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”


By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep/DIED. = Physical dead bodies are "asleep" in the earth = NOT in Heaven.


For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = from the grave/earth = NO dead bodies in Heaven = No one in Heaven is DEAD.

There is NO DEATH and NO DEAD in HEAVEN = Mark 12:26

But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

The LIVING SOULS who are in Heaven/Revelation ch6 & ch7/ is who God brings with Christ.

Their dead bodies are 'sleeping' in the earth and will RISE at HIS COMING which is the RESURRECTION of the DEAD in CHRIST.

JESUS says = "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

When God told the LIVING SOULS under the Altar to rest, HE did not tell them to go to sleep.

"Rest a little while" means that they are waiting and trusting in the Promise of God that JUSTICE will PREVAIL, and will occur at God's Timing = which is AFTER the rest of Saints die as they did. Rev 6:9-11

Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sleeping can mean two things. Literal sleep, or a figure of speech that means to be dead. In various verses, sleeping is being dead not literal sleeping. It is speaking of the human body, not the spirit or soul.

Christ explained that here:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The disciples misunderstood Christ when he said Lazarus is sleeping. The only way for the disciples to understand what he meant was by correcting their error. Don't make the same mistake the disciples made. Scripture is talking about death, not "sleeping". The dead are not "sleeping", they are dead. Their spirit and soul are in heaven or Hades depending on how they lived their lives and even there no one is asleep.


"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" is the figure of speech.
"Lazarus is dead" is the literal and plain speech.

death in the ot is different than the nt

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened;

and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they were sleeping waiting for Christ to overcome deaths grasp on them.

death has two parts the body and the spirit. Before this time the spirit slept with the body which died and will be awakened in the end for judgement.

but because of this

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-

When our body dies we can go be with Jesus alive and well like this guy facing the death of his body yet promised life in another place

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Even before this men’s spirits don’t die they rest like Samuel had been resting when he was awoken by Saul and the spiritist or are tormented like the rich man or like the believing thief are taken into paradise to Live with the lord in the family of Abraham.


even beforehand the spirit lives

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,

while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


People from Noah’s time sinners from them were still living in a spiritual prison when Christ died and rose. That’s a few thousand years they were there spirit doesn’t die like the body does

God gave mans spirit of life it isn’t temporal like the flesh so there are two
Forms of death

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After we die and part the flesh our spirit goes here

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is the second death the spiritual form of death like the rich man was experiencing he died and then was still aware in the torment

“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems they will not die , find rest , or have the torment quenched in that place

 

[DavidTree]

Hardly. The physical body rots and decomposes and feeds earthworms and pushes up daisies. Please think before you post, dear Bro Dave.

CORRECT - the physical body dies and returns to the earth from where it came = It goes back to SLEEP in the EARTH.

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2

Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead. Isaiah 26:19

ONLY our physical bodies die and go back to the earth from where it came.

Our SOUL/SPIRIT did not come from the earth.

Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

The Breath of God is Spirit and did not come from the earth but from God.

When the physical body dies the Breath of God returns to God.

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

 

[Runningman]

We are both looking at the same Scripture and have the same intent of heart to accept and embrace what was written for our admonition and learning.

Paul clearly knew that there is a separation of our soul from our physical bodies when the body dies.

A.) For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed,
B.) we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
C.) Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

D.) So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Now Back to 1 Thessalonians and the clear teaching from the Apostle Paul where he confirms 3 distinct attributes of Man.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 5:23

Paul never refers to the Soul of Man sleeping but only the physical body/TENT that dies and is put off/shed from the soul/spirit of man.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/DIED in Him.

STOP READ HERE: There are NO Dead Bodies in Heaven - No One is Sleeping in Heaven - Living Souls of the Redeemed are in Heaven.
Paul wrote what the LORD JESUS says: Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”


By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep/DIED. = Physical dead bodies are "asleep" in the earth = NOT in Heaven.


For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = from the grave/earth = NO dead bodies in Heaven = No one in Heaven is DEAD.

There is NO DEATH and NO DEAD in HEAVEN = Mark 12:26

But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

The LIVING SOULS who are in Heaven/Revelation ch6 & ch7/ is who God brings with Christ.

Their dead bodies are 'sleeping' in the earth and will RISE at HIS COMING which is the RESURRECTION of the DEAD in CHRIST.

JESUS says = "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

When God told the LIVING SOULS under the Altar to rest, HE did not tell them to go to sleep.

"Rest a little while" means that they are waiting and trusting in the Promise of God that JUSTICE will PREVAIL, and will occur at God's Timing = which is AFTER the rest of Saints die as they did. Rev 6:9-11

Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

We're going round in circles now. I guess we just agree to disagree.

 

[ewq1938]

If I understand you correctly, you're conflating dead with sleep when it isn't always used the same way. Dead bodies are sometimes referred to as asleep, but they are always dead (John 11:11-14).

I don't see evidence of "conflating" It's true that sleep is a metaphor for death.

Souls of deceased saints are sometimes referred to as sleeping (1 Thess. 4:14), but never referred to as dead(Eph. 2:1-10).

That's because the first death is death of the body, but soul and spirit remain alive, and awake.

Souls of unbelievers are referred to as spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1) and I am not aware of a verse that says they ever sleep (Rev. 14:11).

Which should show that "soul sleep" is a false doctrine. No soul of someone who has died is asleep. When Christ spoke of the death of two men, he described both as being awake. Doesn't matter if it was real or a parable, he was teaching something that was true.

This is talking about how God is the God of living souls who are resurrected. Given the context, this is a nod to the "the resurrection of life" Jesus mentioned in John 5:29

:
Matt. 22:32 "...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

God is the God of the living because He will resurrect them.

This is not a reference to God being the God of the future living but the current living. Those that died are still alive as a still living soul.

Since God is a God to the living, when 1 Thess. 4:14 talks about "...them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him..." it is nothing talking about the dead in Christ (spiritually dead) but rather the alive in Christ (spiritually alive) and asleep does not mean literally of figuratively dead (as we already established, those in Christ are not dead),

The term the dead in Christ means they died as saved Christians. It does not refer to the soul being dead. The dead in Christ and those that sleep in Christ are the same exact people who physically died as saved Christians metaphorically referred to those who are sleeping which means are dead physically.

even though G2837 κοιμάω can sometimes mean dead, contextually it means it just means literally or figuratively sleeping.

Only in context of people that are physically alive. Everytime it is related to a physically dead person it can only mean dead.

Souls that are with God are resting, idle, or sleeping; that's exactly what Paul taught in 1 Thess. 4:14 and it has to be considered.

That doesn't support souls being asleep in heaven.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

No hope of what? Resurrection from death!

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The subject is going from being dead to being alive and Paul uses Christ as the example. Thus, those who sleep in Jesus is a reference to the dead in Christ.


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

And here is further proof Paul was talking about the dead in Christ this entire time.

There is not one scripture (similar to pre-trib) that supports the souls of the dead as literally being asleep. Moses is dead but was seen fully awake. The souls of the dead in Revelation 6 are fully awake. The souls Christ talked about were fully awake. (the Rich man etc)

2 Cor. 5:8-9

is talking about physical death. Upon physical death, the soul leaves the body and returns to God. Ecc. 12:7 says upon death the soul returns to God. 1 Thess. 4:14 says that God has souls with Him and that they are asleep, not dead.

No, it does not say that. It says they are asleep/dead not asleep/asleep. You know they died a physical death so they are the dead in Christ metaphorically known as asleep but never confuse that for the sleeping the physically living do. The body needs sleep, the soul does not.

You said they are not sleeping or dead per Rev. 6:9-10. While I agree that they are not sleeping,

yet, they will be resting soon.

Which disproves soul sleep because the doctrine teaches sleeping happens immediately after death but these souls have been dead awhile, maybe as far back as Abel and the OT saints and yet they are not asleep even as far as very near the Great Tribulation which is thousands of years after John wrote Revelation. So the souls of the dead are fully awake for thousands of years!

They are told to rest which means to patiently wait and stop complaining awhile before God will avenge their deaths. They are not told to go to sleep.

G373
ἀναπαύω
anapauō
an-ap-ow'-o
From G303 and G3973; (reflexively) to repose (literally or figuratively (be exempt), remain); by implication to refresh: - take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Why haven't you looked at the actual meaning? It does not mean sleep. It only can mean sleep when the Greek word for sleep is used in conjunction but on it's own, it never means to sleep. It's used 12 times in scripture and I have look at them all.

Look at Rev. 6:11. I will add it below. Ultimately, I am going to have to disagree with you here because you stopped short of providing the full context. Consistent with scriptures, souls go to God to sleep or take a rest.
Rev. 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These had not been asleep or resting until this moment. Thousands of years had passed already. Sorry but you have shown no support for soul sleep while I have shown errors in exegesis and at least 3 examples of the souls of the dead not sleeping. I rest my case, for now.

 

[DavidTree]

We're going round in circles now. I guess we just agree to disagree.

We are both there together - just look closely and you will see that the dead in Christ are those Saints who died, which means their physical bodies went back to dust from where it came and their soul/spirit went directly to Heaven.

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

See Post #24 and look again at Revelation ch6 and ch7 = these are the souls of the Saints who have died in the LORD.

PEACE - and if you find more scripture that is directly connected, please share - amen

 

[Gardenias]

Wow I'm confused!

God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?

The body contains many elements in the earthly dirt. It decays and decomposes very rapidly most of the time.

If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?

Simple language guys,I'm old and have never heard this to be DOCTRINE!

Help me understand what you all are saying.
Each sounds the SAME as the other,I see no difference to in your debates

 

[Pilgrimshope]

CORRECT - the physical body dies and returns to the earth from where it came = It goes back to SLEEP in the EARTH.

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2

Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead. Isaiah 26:19

ONLY our physical bodies die and go back to the earth from where it came.

Our SOUL/SPIRIT did not come from the earth.

Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

The Breath of God is Spirit and did not come from the earth but from God.

When the physical body dies the Breath of God returns to God.

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

amen death is the opposite of creation the spirit is breathed into a body made of earth , and at death the spirit leaves the body made of earth and returns to God from where our life came for judgement of what we’ve done in the body

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews 9:27

the flesh dies the spirit goes here

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


our spirit goes to be judged for the life we lived in the body the new body is a spiritual one

Our body does and decays like a seed but it’s going to produce a better permanent body

“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are different kinds of bodies awaiting us glorified ones. Made for an eternal world our souls can be saved but not our flesh bodies that’s our first death that all are appointed to and then after they die the judgement of Christ.

either way thier bodies “ sleep “ in the dust until the resurrection but thier spirits live with Jesus water thier earthly body is asleep or awake

“For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


part of man dies like a seed but not e let that was alive the body was dead until he breathed the spirit into man and when the soirit leaves the body it becomes again dead the spirit in us is the life the body is only like a tent we dwell in for a short time

 

[DavidTree]

Wow I'm confused!

God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?

The body contains many elements in the earthly dirt. It decays and decomposes very rapidly most of the time.

If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?

Simple language guys,I'm old and have never heard this to be DOCTRINE!

Help me understand what you all are saying.
Each sounds the SAME as the other,I see no difference to in your debates

Only our physical bodies decay and return to dust where it waits for the Resurrection at His Coming for those who are His.

When JESUS was on the Cross and HE said it is finished HE breathed out His Spirit/Soul.

Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” And when He had said this, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46

We who are in Christ never die, only the physical body dies = For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life = 1 John 5:11-12

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow I'm confused!

God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?

The body contains many elements in the earthly dirt. It decays and decomposes very rapidly most of the time.

If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?

Simple language guys,I'm old and have never heard this to be DOCTRINE!

Help me understand what you all are saying.
Each sounds the SAME as the other,I see no difference to in your debates

“God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?”

yes it’s what we know as the Holy Ghost.

“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we receive the holy spirit it’s the spirit of Jesus that died on the cross the Holy Spirit.

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it makes us born again as his children to receive the spirit of the only son

“If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?”

man has a living spirit and lives inside a temporary flesh body made of the earth. We have two parts a spirit and body this makes us a living soul.

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we die the opposite happens our body returns to the dust that it was made of but our living spirit returns to God who gave it to us by. Teething his spirit into Man.

We’re only alive because he breathed life and mind and heart and personality and intelligence and morals no imaginations ect into mankind. That’s our spirit the part of you hat makes you an individual your kindness , virtue , uniqueness thoughts and beliefs It isn’t flesh but who you are inwardly is where your deeds come from

your body is going to die like a seed but your spirit is alive independently a spiritual body is what is raised up for the heavenly kingdom

“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:42, 44-45, 49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re going to be glorified heavenly people when we die and are raised our body now is like a seed it has to die forst and then the tree can grow and come forth

our flesh is holding us back it’s always been the problem

“And the Lord said,

My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:

yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re going to shed our flesh though and live by the spirit in Christs kingdom where he is alive now with believers who passed through but the new earth will bring forth new and glorified earthly bodies when all things come together again

we’re going to inhabit bodies on the new earth again but we are spiritual beings like Jesus

 

[Nehemiah6]

"...The dead in Christ shall rise first..."

Do you even understand what is really being said? The event is the Resurrection/Rapture, and the promise is for the resurrected saints (described as either those who "sleep in Jesus| or those who are "the dead in Christ" -- makes no difference) to PRECEDE the living saints who will be raptured at that time. But the time frame is in nanoseconds.

 

[Gardenias]

Yes,@DavidTree.
I understand the corruption of the flesh.

What I'm failing to understand is what the difference is between death and sleep.

I know Jesus said of Larazus and the little girl they " sleepeth".

What I'm failing at is IT'S IMORTANCE TO ANY. And why it is a doctrine,this has nothing to do with doctrine.

I know too in heaven we will be known as we were known in life.

If those that be dead in Christ are not IN the rotten flesh and bone,then WHAT'S GONNA BE RESURRECTED?



This discussion is more combobbkeled than the word "rapture"

 

[Gardenias]

“God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?”

yes it’s what we know as the Holy Ghost.

“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we receive the holy spirit it’s the spirit of Jesus that died on the cross the Holy Spirit.

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it makes us born again as his children to receive the spirit of the only son

“If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?”

man has a living spirit and lives inside a temporary flesh body made of the earth. We have two parts a spirit and body this makes us a living soul.

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we die the opposite happens our body returns to the dust that it was made of but our living spirit returns to God who gave it to us by. Teething his spirit into Man.

We’re only alive because he breathed life and mind and heart and personality and intelligence and morals no imaginations ect into mankind. That’s our spirit the part of you hat makes you an individual your kindness , virtue , uniqueness thoughts and beliefs It isn’t flesh but who you are inwardly is where your deeds come from

your body is going to die like a seed but your spirit is alive independently a spiritual body is what is raised up for the heavenly kingdom

“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:42, 44-45, 49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re going to be glorified heavenly people when we die and are raised our body now is like a seed it has to die forst and then the tree can grow and come forth

our flesh is holding us back it’s always been the problem

“And the Lord said,

My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:

yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re going to shed our flesh though and live by the spirit in Christs kingdom where he is alive now with believers who passed through but the new earth will bring forth new and glorified earthly bodies when all things come together again

we’re going to inhabit bodies on the new earth again but we are spiritual beings like Jesus

I see what your saying.

Where are our souls then.

They are not corruptible,right?

All who have breathed,have NOT the Spirit of God?


Im sorry maybe it's best if I don't take part in this discussion as it has nothing to do with the doctrine of the word.


Thanks for all who have tried to explain🤗

 

[Blain]

Soul sleep? This is the first I have heard of it but it doesn't sound biblical at all not mention the physical body sleeps as to recover and regain it's strength but a soul is not physical so why would it need to sleep?

 

[John146]

Only our physical bodies decay and return to dust where it waits for the Resurrection at His Coming for those who are His.

When JESUS was on the Cross and HE said it is finished HE breathed out His Spirit/Soul.

Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” And when He had said this, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46

We who are in Christ never die, only the physical body dies = For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life = 1 John 5:11-12

Are you equating a man’s spirit with his soul? They are not the same.

 

[DavidTree]

Are you equating a man’s spirit with his soul? They are not the same.

You are correct - they are not the same but God has joined them and because of this the Scripture uses them interchangeably.

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Only God can see the difference between the two.
We know the the soul of man as his mind, will and emotions.

 

[peldom10]

Wow I'm confused!

God has said all SOULS are his. Jesus gave up the ghost,was this his spirit?

The body contains many elements in the earthly dirt. It decays and decomposes very rapidly most of the time.

If the souls? Spirits?
Return to God,why would we be asleep if dead,waiting on his return?

Simple language guys,I'm old and have never heard this to be DOCTRINE!

Help me understand what you all are saying.
Each sounds the SAME as the other,I see no difference to in your debates

I don't find the Bible totally clear on time of happenings after death. However, we can piece a reasonable answer;....the Bible says there is no time in the spirit world. Taking that literally, one can conclude that from the time a person dies in....oh....say....2-15-2000 until the rapture it will only be a mili. seond of time....to that person. Yes that time frame will be months and years to the earthlings who live after 2-15-2000, because we are timed.

 

[Runningman]

We are both there together - just look closely and you will see that the dead in Christ are those Saints who died, which means their physical bodies went back to dust from where it came and their soul/spirit went directly to Heaven.

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

See Post #24 and look again at Revelation ch6 and ch7 = these are the souls of the Saints who have died in the LORD.

PEACE - and if you find more scripture that is directly connected, please share - amen

I'm not sure what you're wanting me to see exactly. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 still says that God brings with Jesus "those who are asleep" when He descends from Heaven. That isn't changing any time soon. Please take another prayerful look at 1 Thessalonians 4 and decide if you agree with Paul or not. @ewq1938 @DavidTree @Nehemiah6

 

[Blain]

I don't find the Bible totally clear on time of happenings after death. However, we can piece a reasonable answer;....the Bible says there is no time in the spirit world. Taking that literally, one can conclude that from the time a person dies in....oh....say....2-15-2000 until the rapture it will only be a mili. seond of time....to that person. Yes that time frame will be months and years to the earthlings who live after 2-15-2000, because we are timed.

I have only been to the spirit world a couple of times but when I was there I had no sense of time what so ever but I wonder if my soul or spirit was there as to be honest I don't fully understand the difference