How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

He experiences "all time at the same time all the time" - in a way that is unique to Him.

He is "outside of time" in the sense that:

"At one time there was no time."

(i.e. - it did not exist until He created it)

That is the way I look at it.

The Revelation 20 resurrection is when the resurrection of all the dead in Christ takes place. Revelation 20 only focuses upon that one group but all the dead in Christ rise at that same time. Also, the dead are never raptured. The living are raptured, not resurrected and the dead are resurrected not raptured. The former dead descend from heaven with Christ, while the changed living saints ascend upwards from the Earth.

Show me the wording of a time frame of resurrection in those seated on thrones in rev 20.

It ONLY SAYS they were once beheaded, but now live and sit on thrones.

But you have made it say more.
You added to the book.
Not a good idea

Now you rev 20 "1st and only resurrection adherents" need to know something.

You are seeing a scene on earth AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.

SO....you are placing the resurrection of 1 thes 4 AFTER THE MEGEDDO BATTLE.
Interesting
Interestingly false and impossible.

You guys really painted yourselves onto a corner.

Can even one of you reconcile that blunder?????

Hey there, David. Ain’t happening! … cause no pretrib rapture scripture exists.

Those who believe in the pretrib rapture theory and use the 1 Thessalonians 4 verses as proof are just not interpreting these verses correctly.

4:13-18: The subject in these verses is WHERE are the dead (or those who have fallen asleep)? Paul is saying that God’s Word says that everyone who has died is with God (already changed into their spiritual bodies and in heaven—some on the good side of the gulf aand some on the bad side). Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us that all spirits will return to God when we die.

When Jesus returns at the 2nd Coming, all those who are still alive will be changed into spiritual bodies (air). The dead in Christ who have already been changed will, of course, precede those who are still alive on earth in physical bodies because they are already there.

These verses have nothing to do with any kind of rapture theory. They are all about what happens when we die and are words for comfort.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NKJV)

IOW
In your superrior wisdom the dead in Christ are raised at the coming on white horses.

That puts the living of rev14:14 raised before the dead in Christ.

Yep you guys are really doing a good job.

There will be NO rapture until His Second Coming

and yet the 6th Vial leads up to "Armageddon" per Rev16:12[16]

So you're having "the Church which is His body" going through "the wrath of God" (which you believe only exists within the "7 Vials"... and yet the 6th Vial leads up to "Armageddon" per Rev16:12[16])... how is that??


[1Th1:10 - "...the One delivering us out-from [ek] the wrath coming"; "...hath not appointed us unto wrath..." 5:9]

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

2Co 10:4-5 The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but are divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5 We are destroying every speculation and every lofty thought raised up against the true knowledge of God, even taking every thought captive, to the obedience of Christ

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

Paul's first letter cannot be ignored; in that he was assuring the Thessalonians (two times) that they were not destined for wrath.

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1Th 5:9 God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And it's not enough to stop here, because Paul, John, and our Lord were having much more to say. Things having already been revealed, but as they say: "Here we go again."

1Co 15:50-51 I say this brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So, (((according to the false prophets))) here we have it; two passages leaving us with no scenario of there being people alive in their bodies of flesh; that is, not on the earth as we are knowing it now. And this is precisely the place where the narrative of a false prophet falls on its face, falling into their own trap. The legacy of the lie goes out, saturating the hearts of men; this being the basis for the nations (to first being weakened from within) before they start to crack and crumbed. Since empires have crumbled in the hands of the one having claims to forming them; then it's safe to say she has been the one responsible for adding or taking away words from the Book.

The end coming is dependent on truth/an unadulterated Gospel going out; as God intended it to be a testimony for all the nations to see.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The best strategy for Satan to remain free was the disinformation campaign he himself created, therefore (because of his followers/the false prophets going out)

Act 20:29-30 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

it was destined that a significantly leavened gospel would go out into the world (but thereafter we would be washed of these things)

This is to say that Satan had the tools in place (the beasts of the sea) in order to spread disinformation throughout the world; namely that the reins of this advance would be in the hands of the Great Harlot.

Mat 13:33 He spoke another parable to them, “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”

The Gospel has to be more than just saying, "A man indwelt by God was impaled while bearing our sins"; (otherwise the end would have already come). Even since the times of Constantine, all of us have been beaten over the head about God being three; as if it all depended on us believing that; (But if was depending on all the nations knowing about a three gospel) the end would have already come.

Therefore, (like that of their fathers) the false prophets will avoid anything that is substantive: like Jesus' description of at least three different "days of the Lord", even admitting it was the Father, and not He, that was knowing the exact timing.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The day(s) will come when you will long to see one of the day(s) of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Jhn 6:40 "This is the will of My Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, even I Myself will raise him up in/G1722 the last day(s).

Even from ancient times, it was turning out that delays would work their way into the equation.

1Th 2:18 We wanted to come to you—I, Paul, more than once—and yet Satan hindered us.

Mat 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

Rev 10:6 Swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there shall no longer be any delay.

My favorite Scripture that helps us see clearly the Love of God and Fear of God in the Second Coming of Christ = 1 Thess 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
This is the ABC's of His Second Coming

A.) "wait for His Son from Heaven" = Make a note of this = He is Coming from Heaven and we are Waiting for His Coming
B.) "raised from the dead" = Resurrection = HE is Coming with Resurrection FIRST = Salvation First = Heb 9:28
C.) "Deliverer from Coming Wrath" = The LORD is Both Salvation and Judge/Wrath upon the ungodly = God is Ambidextrous
HE has a Right hand and a Left Hand and HE uses them BOTH with EQUAL Power

But before going any further than this, someone said, "Follow the sevens from where you first saw them." That is John delivering a blessing (from) those in heaven.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are before His throne, Rev 1:5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins in His blood.

Rev 1:12-13a Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me; and turning I saw seven golden lampstands 13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man.

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((the seven lampstands are the seven churches)))

So here we have it: (((The Seven Lampstands are the Seven Churches)))

Strong's Number G1577 matches the Greek ἐκκλησία (ekklesia) and should always be understood as be the congregation, but never a building made made by human hands.

Rev 2:1a,c “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: (c) the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

To avoid any distraction that resides in unsolved mysteries; we point out that the seven letters of John are addressed to the Angels. Of the seven letters the following is a good example, in that it reveals the condition of primarily the the Angel; that he is said to be dead.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and (the seven stars), says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

These passages are the prime examples of why (contextually) angels need to be understood as being messengers; that is, the Pastors of each individual congregation. This part of the mystery is resolved by going back to where it originated: that is the book of Daniel, and even farther back to Moses in Deuteronomy, where the basis of Holy Ones being in God's hand originated.

Dan 12:3 “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, are like the stars forever and ever.

Deu 33:1 Now this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the sons of Israel before his death. 2 He said, "Jehovah came from Sinai, And rose before them from Seir;
He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones;
in His right hand there was flashes of lightning. 3 "Indeed, He loves the peoples; all of His holy ones are in His hand, and at His feet; they are receiving of His words.

In each of seven letters we find a promise for those who overcome:

Rev 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Rev 2:11 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

Rev 2:17 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’

Rev 2:26 ‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; 27 AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); 28 and (((I will give him the morning star))). 29 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Rev 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 3:12 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))).

Rev 3:21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture, passing what remains of us to our heavenly dwelling. (Therefore, the sounding of the voice like a trumpet) sets in motion John's ascent into the throne room; even the (future) ascent of those who will be alive on earth (as with John we are suddenly in Spirit) even (in the future) our Lord descending with the brethren who are now before the throne; all of us meeting in the clouds before ascending to the throne room. This is why there is no signs of the torches of fire, nor that of the lamb, until (shortly after) John arrives; which comprehends the reception being preceded by lightning and thunder, revealing Seven Lamps of Fire having overcome, with the Lord walking among us, ready to take our throne.

It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the Revelation pops back into what is now the Church's past; where in Revelations 22:6 the narrative shifts. But it's not until Rev 22:10 that revelation shifts back specific to the times of the church.

We inherit everything Christ is and has, starting with His eternal life: To Him who overcomes will 'eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'; 'will not be affected by the second death.’; will be given 'some of the hidden manna, and a new name'; will be given 'AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); and (((I will give him the morning star))). He who overcomes 'will be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and His angels. ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))). ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne. and (((((I will give him the morning star))))).

Good Morning Laura,

Dear Lord Jesus Christ, we thank you for today, bless our hearts in you for all that Your Word declares - Amen.

This question can be answered from Scripture and is essential for us to know the answer:

"How does Christ who is in Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???"

Good Morning Laura,

Dear Lord Jesus Christ, we thank you for today, bless our hearts in you for all that Your Word declares - Amen.

This question can be answered from Scripture and is essential for us to know the answer:

"How does Christ who is in Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???"

Morning David, this eas

hi david, this as answered already in my other posts. At workso sendingquickly!