THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH
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K
Since I didn't get an answer to my question I'll take a stab at answering the OP. I found an interesting article and it's close to what I have believed for years. And I believe it's a lot closer to the truth than what some have been taught down through the years.
In this article the author takes into account the time period we are talking about. What was the situation of women? Not only did she take that into account but also the flow of Scripture here that is talking about false doctrine. Here's some points she makes in the article that I think make sense.
- False teaching was a major problem in Ephesus. Most of it probably came from the Artemis cult and early forms of Gnosticism.
- The Ephesian women needed to learn because they were “talking nonsense.” They probably brought false teaching into the church hoping Artemis would keep them safe in childbirth.
- Everyone should learn the truth calmly and submissively.
- Women shouldn’t dominate men, nor should men dominate women. Just because women in Ephesus were teaching falsely and needed to learn doesn’t mean women can’t be good teachers elsewhere.
- Contrary to Gnostic ideas, Eve didn’t do something good by seeking “knowledge.” Rather, she was deceived and sinned. 6.God will keep Christian women safe in childbirth. They don’t need Artemis worship.
For those who wish to continue to bicker and argue and cause strife, I'd like anyone to explain to me why the good Lord would cut his harvesters in half after making this comment...
“The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” "We need harvesters!! Pray for more to be sent ou... no not y'all, you all shut up, sit down and be silent !" "Now where are my harvesters?!" Yeah, no, I don't believe that for one minute. As I said in my travels, many of these small country churches were kept totally alive by the women of the church. They could do everything except preach. And some here have said a church should rather be shut down than have a female preacher. smh I will never, ever believe that is God's will.
We had a thread a while back about preachers not harping at men to go to church. I was dumbfounded. I tell you this, if you believe God would punish a woman for spreading the Gospel, what is his punishment for man who sit at home on a Sunday to watch his sports rather than get up and take his children to Sunday School and take his place by his wife in the pew? How many woman have to badger husbands to get them to attend church on Sunday, let alone any other time of the week. Really, who do you think the Lord will be more upset with? smh
For those who are to read the article here is the link...
https://www.cbeinternational.org/re...en-someone-says-women-are-not-permitted-teach
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I do agree that throughout history, God sovereign nature allowed the Bible to be translated into English. I believe it was his will that the 1000s of manuscripts were preserved in caves, underground ruins, hidden passages, etc all for the sake of textual criticism and preservation of the truth.
But when you say preserved through them (KJV translators) then I question why does textual criticism stop at the KJV? How do you know the translators were inspired by the Holy Spirit? Why the KJV when the Geneva Bible was the KJV's foundational source? What makes the manuscripts used more reliable than others? Would you agree that it was men who decided between English words which best fit the Hebrew or Greek word?
But when you say preserved through them (KJV translators) then I question why does textual criticism stop at the KJV? How do you know the translators were inspired by the Holy Spirit? Why the KJV when the Geneva Bible was the KJV's foundational source? What makes the manuscripts used more reliable than others? Would you agree that it was men who decided between English words which best fit the Hebrew or Greek word?
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wise words
really, what else can a person say to try and be helpful. example after example has been given in this thread and in many others when it comes to the KJ only club
exactly so
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:1
that is a warning to be taken seriously in conjunction with the fact that God by His Spirit actually gives the gift of teaching
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you study for yourself. you cannot ignore the fact of errors in translation in the KJ and say you are a teacher
what you do with your own beliefs is one thing...I don't believe those are salvic issues, but trying to teach others from a very opinionated position is not what the word itself tells us to do as my post above provides
S
who do you think you are talking to here? a bunch of dimwits?
you are changing what you said and I obviously have very little patience when people start doing that
you insist that the KJ is actually inspired...you know you do this and anyone who has seen your responses in KJ only threads has seen it also. no one said to stop saying the KJ is (basically) a good English translation so you are adding to what I and others have said...you are being creative with the truth, to put it politely
you go way past just 'English translation' however and you call all other English translations corrupt and you went so far in this particular thread, as to imply that certain wording in a different translation other than the KJ, leads to homosexual behavior
when people start twisting what others said and even twist what they said themselves in order to create a sly narrative, why should anyone take that person as being an honest steward of the word of God?
you are changing what you said and I obviously have very little patience when people start doing that
you insist that the KJ is actually inspired...you know you do this and anyone who has seen your responses in KJ only threads has seen it also. no one said to stop saying the KJ is (basically) a good English translation so you are adding to what I and others have said...you are being creative with the truth, to put it politely
you go way past just 'English translation' however and you call all other English translations corrupt and you went so far in this particular thread, as to imply that certain wording in a different translation other than the KJ, leads to homosexual behavior
when people start twisting what others said and even twist what they said themselves in order to create a sly narrative, why should anyone take that person as being an honest steward of the word of God?
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I use the KJV but only in comparison to multiple versions in my study because if my study needs to go that far in depth, I check to see which version has the closest translation to fit the meaning of the Hebrew or Greek words.
In my opinion I feel the KJV is not a good source for evangelism as most people do not speak in old English. It only complicates the message for new believers.
I also find the idea that the KJV is superior to be just silly and find it a mediocre argument.
Of course, the real argument was over the role of women and teaching. Now this is an argument that can either restrict the gifts of women or can give women the liberty to let their gifts edify the body of Christ.
If we say we are of the Holy Spirit but can not detect the Holy Spirit in others then how are we to judge if something is of God? If a women was to teach men the gospel, which is often done on this site as a virtual assembly of believers, and the Holy Spirit gives life to those words, fruit to the wisdom, and enlightenment to the mind, then where is the evil?
What if we are in the days like Deborah where the men on a modern stage will not step up and say here I am Lord. Masculinity is now defined as toxic, our young men are falling into this deviation where statistically each generation is growing further and further from God.
In God's sovereignty there will always be a remnant even if it means God calls a women to lead. This is typically God's style to choose those not culturally accepted.
In my opinion I feel the KJV is not a good source for evangelism as most people do not speak in old English. It only complicates the message for new believers.
I also find the idea that the KJV is superior to be just silly and find it a mediocre argument.
Of course, the real argument was over the role of women and teaching. Now this is an argument that can either restrict the gifts of women or can give women the liberty to let their gifts edify the body of Christ.
If we say we are of the Holy Spirit but can not detect the Holy Spirit in others then how are we to judge if something is of God? If a women was to teach men the gospel, which is often done on this site as a virtual assembly of believers, and the Holy Spirit gives life to those words, fruit to the wisdom, and enlightenment to the mind, then where is the evil?
What if we are in the days like Deborah where the men on a modern stage will not step up and say here I am Lord. Masculinity is now defined as toxic, our young men are falling into this deviation where statistically each generation is growing further and further from God.
In God's sovereignty there will always be a remnant even if it means God calls a women to lead. This is typically God's style to choose those not culturally accepted.
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agree with this
further, I was brought up on the KJ and I am very familiar with it. in fact, when I am trying to think of a verse, it comes to mind in the KJ version and then I look up other translations...lately, I am liking the Berean translation, but have also studied in the NIV which I do not always find adequate, or new KJ or the NAS
it really is best to do as you point out and use multiple versions...I also like the English Standard, more for the quality of the way it is presented sometimes as prose
bottom line though, the KJ is certainly not inspired as were the original writings. that belief is one of the main arguments for those who adhere to the KJ only and it holds no water
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John146 said:
I study the word thoroughly. However, I do not change the words to my liking
He says that he does not change the words to his liking, yet he supports an English translation (KJV) that changes the word Deacon into servant when addressing Phoebe (a woman) in an effort to strip Phoebe and other women of the title Deacon. That is not consistent with the original Greek language of the NT.
I study the word thoroughly. However, I do not change the words to my liking
He says that he does not change the words to his liking, yet he supports an English translation (KJV) that changes the word Deacon into servant when addressing Phoebe (a woman) in an effort to strip Phoebe and other women of the title Deacon. That is not consistent with the original Greek language of the NT.
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ChristianS do not base their beliefs merely on grammar or linguistics. The Bible is perfectly clear that only men can be deacons within a local church. Therefore it follows that Phoebe was neither a deacon nor a deaconess. But she was a servant of the church -- she served the church in whatever way she could and was commended for it. The word diakoneo can be translated as either servant/attendant or deacon (an office in the church as noted in 1 Tim 3:10,13).
STRONG'S CONCORDANCE
διακονέω diakonéō, dee-ak-on-eh'-o; from G1249; to be an attendant, i.e. wait upon (menially or as a host, friend, or (figuratively) teacher); technically, to act as a Christian deacon:—(ad-)minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon.
STRONG'S CONCORDANCE
διακονέω diakonéō, dee-ak-on-eh'-o; from G1249; to be an attendant, i.e. wait upon (menially or as a host, friend, or (figuratively) teacher); technically, to act as a Christian deacon:—(ad-)minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon.
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Diakoneo is the root of the word deacon which a deacon is a servant as Jesus himself said He came to serve. Which means she could of been teaching as well. The writer could have used any other word. He could of used mathētḗs a learner; a disciple, a follower of Christ who learns the doctrines of Scripture and the lifestyle they require. But he chose specifically deacon.
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