What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

I"m not sure how your point is any different than my point. In the previous verse in Ecclesiastes it does use the word spirit for both man and animals, however the NASB says 'breath' instead of spirit which I personally believe is a better rendering--it's important that we always consider the context. An animal does not have the ability to interact or know God, a human does. Solomon's rhetorical question is will man return to dust the as an animal or instead will he be able to rise and be with God? He actually seems to be questioning that point.

L


lol 😁

dear sister we simply are at different points of understanding on this matter and we are doing nothing but arguing both of us I’m not saying it’s your fault

but my point is it’s okay we don’t have to “win” we can just let both of our points sit in both of our hearts and actually consider what the other said all through our discussion and maybe well both learn something ?


Let’s just let the growing animosity go now together and hopefully find agreement elsewhere in another discussion.

this place could be a great benefit if we could state opinions and ideas from scripture like we always do everyone offers thoer take and thoughts and then if we could not see it is a competition or argument of as if the person is against us and see it as bunch of believers who are all at different points of what they know , what it means to them , how they understand it

then we could maybe find reasons to let grace sort of rule the hearts of people here d we could possibly all learn from just the open discussion .


For my part to you I’m not against you it’s just Christians searching for better understanding discussing what they think scripture means , what God has taught them in thier unique life experience with him . I’ve never meant to insult you or your beliefs but I’m just discussing with you my view .

I’m just a normal dude , not a pastor or teacher or wise man or seminary seeker or anything my view is just what I believe and have learned from scripture maybe you understand it better , that doesn’t matter to me but if we can just let this one sit and have no hard feelings between us because we believe a few different things we do both believe in Jesus that’s what’s most valuable and important

so thanks for the discussion sorry for any offense or anything I hope to find some agreement later God loves you and may he bless you indeed !!

Dear Brother (thanks for calling me sis--that's such a blessing)

Agreed--and I have no hard feelings and I'm sorry if sometimes I am not as gracious as I should be. I love apologetics and I find when trying to make a point, I may see something I hadn't seen before--even if my mind isn't changed--there are always new discoveries to be made in His Word!

PS I've been out of work some time, but will, thankfully be back to work Monday! This was sort of a way for me to 'feel' as if I was doing something---also even if it's disagreement--it was at least connection--CA is much stricter than other parts of the country I'm afraid. But I'm sure some of my time here could've been better spent elsewhere.

um yeah mankind’s spirit given when his body was formed in the beginning what’s your point ?

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mans spirit came here

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are two parts to us the life inside no one can see the person and then the body just an inanimate vehicle formoir spirit on earth

man then corrupted ourselves and became like this

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this doesn’t change thre fact that man has always had a living spirit even animals have a spirit

Dear Brother (thanks for calling me sis--that's such a blessing)

Agreed--and I have no hard feelings and I'm sorry if sometimes I am not as gracious as I should be. I love apologetics and I find when trying to make a point, I may see something I hadn't seen before--even if my mind isn't changed--there are always new discoveries to be made in His Word!

PS I've been out of work some time, but will, thankfully be back to work Monday! This was sort of a way for me to 'feel' as if I was doing something---also even if it's disagreement--it was at least connection--CA is much stricter than other parts of the country I'm afraid. But I'm sure some of my time here could've been better spent elsewhere.

Pilgrim, you said: "even animals have a spirit."

This is false. Animals have a soul--that is emotion, mind, and will, they do not, however, have a SPIRIT--that part that is given the ability to understand, interact, and respond to God.

They do have a spirit according to scripture:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!


(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.


Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!


07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}

from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f


AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378


1) wind, breath, mind, spirit


Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!


Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

Yes, see my other post. NASB call this spirit 'breath' which I think fits better in this particular context.

What about other verse?

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Clearly this is an internal spirit which leaves the body at death. Man's goes up, an animal's goes down. Still proves that animals do have literal spirits. I just think you have the wrong definition and understanding of what a spirit is.

What about other verse?

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Clearly this is an internal spirit which leaves the body at death. Man's goes up, an animal's goes down. Still proves that animals do have literal spirits. I just think you have the wrong definition and understanding of what a spirit is.

I don't know how anyone can say that annihilation equals:

"the everlasting fire" Matthew 18:8, 25:41

"everlasting burnings" isa 33:14

"eternal fire" Jude 1:7

"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29

Only the fire is everlasting. The people are not.




Same verse has, "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?" but you don't want to quote a verse that has devour in it do you? A devouring fire equals annihilation.

Isa 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
Isa 33:12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Isa 33:13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?





Only the fire is everlasting. The people are not.



Damnation means a judgment that has been made. That judgment will last forever. The judgement is death in eternal fire and that same fire will devour the people which proves annihilation..


Your own supplied verses prove annihilation is right and eternal torture wrong. That's expected from a 2.5-3 out of 10. You are wrong.

Oh I don't think so buddy....

Rev 14:9
A third angel followed the first two, declaring in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and takes the mark on his forehead or his hand,

Rev 14:10
that person will also drink of the wine of God's anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb.

And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name."

I don't know how anyone can say that annihilation equals:

"the everlasting fire" Matthew 18:8, 25:41
"everlasting burnings" isa 33:14
"eternal fire" Jude 1:7
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29

I say
You will go somewhere when you die Folks ------you will either ascend upward
or you will descend downward into the abyss ----and that is all up to us ------

Now we don't have to believe in a place of Torment or a place of Bliss --that doesn't mean they don't exist ----
Sinners cannot ever enter Heaven --and that is Biblical ---Sinners will go somewhere --but it's not heaven --Folks