Are we in the end times ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#61
Paul's words are the word of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ taught him through an abundance of revelations.
To place Paul's words not only on the same level with but superior to the Lord Jesus Christ's is fraught with problems, and it appears to be what Hann is doing by rejecting the teachings of the Lord in the Gospels (Matthew and Mark specifically) as if they were not written to us. Rejecting the words of Christ in the Gospels yet affirming them in Paul is at the very least illogical, and at its worst deeply heretical.
Jesus and Paul are in perfect harmony! Jesus came to usher in the New Covenant and gave to Paul the meaning of this New Covenant to give to us.

For the sake of those who don't yet quite understand the New Covenant, let's not drive a wedge between Jesus and Paul.

Jesus was the last prophet under the Law, He taught the true meaning of the Law, the actual depth of the Law, which is fulfilled in the New Covenant by faith in Christ. It is only Paul in all of scripture that makes this connection for us.

So I agree that we certainly don't ignore Christ's words, but it is Paul in his letters that gives us the understanding of His words.
 

Vindicator

Active member
Nov 11, 2021
228
71
28
#62
Jesus and Paul are in perfect harmony! Jesus came to usher in the New Covenant and gave to Paul the meaning of this New Covenant to give to us.

For the sake of those who don't yet quite understand the New Covenant, let's not drive a wedge between Jesus and Paul.

Jesus was the last prophet under the Law, He taught the true meaning of the Law, the actual depth of the Law, which is fulfilled in the New Covenant by faith in Christ. It is only Paul in all of scripture that makes this connection for us.

So I agree that we certainly don't ignore Christ's words, but it is Paul in his letters that gives us the understanding of His words.

I'd have to take issue with this position as well, Charlie, and greetings in Christ, btw. Nice to meet you.

The entire New Testament is relevant to the church's teachings today, not just Paul's epistles. As Paul himself stated, "ALL scripture is good for doctrine, reprove, exhortation," and this would include the entire Old Testament, which is certainly excluded by Hann if he not only doesn't honor the Gospels as of any value to us today but even the epistles of James, Jude, Peter and John.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#63
I'd have to take issue with this position as well, Charlie, and greetings in Christ, btw. Nice to meet you.

The entire New Testament is relevant to the church's teachings today, not just Paul's epistles. As Paul himself stated, "ALL scripture is good for doctrine, reprove, exhortation," and this would include the entire Old Testament, which is certainly excluded by Hann if he not only doesn't honor the Gospels as of any value to us today but even the epistles of James, Jude, Peter and John.
I agree! I have always said if one does not have a solid understanding of the Old Testament, they will not and cannot have a solid understanding of the New!

It's also nice to meet you!
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#64
You guys are blessing my socks off!
 
Jul 24, 2021
494
78
28
#66
Nothing you have said here makes any sense. From the scriptures which is the word of God I read.
From the Scriptures then.
Wisdom
Rev 13 16And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.

What wisdom are you trying to learn? What wisdom are you trusting? That of man or that of God. Understand the number and have faith.

Fifth seal
Rev 6 9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

Jesus' return is when all 144000 is filled. Self-destruction is counter to the filling of the 144000. There is no point to fill if there is no one to fill it.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#67
Good morning, Truman.

If I may ask, what does Oblio mean?
Oblio was the name of a character in an animated movie called, "The Point," that came out in the early 70s. Everyone had a point on their head except Oblio, so he was banished from society and had to live in exile in the pointless forest where he faced monsters and other oddballs.
I've always related to him.
 
O

Omegatime

Guest
#68
Geetings, may the Lord bless you all. Are we in the end times?? Are we in the tribulation, my answer is no. Are we nearing the time of the tribulation, my answer is any year! Just wanted to share some thoughts from my studies. My expertise is in time studies and parables. I see jesus being born on Passover and died on Passover. As far as our modern calendar I certainly see that our calendar should have been started at the death of Jesus, not his birth. The age we are now living in started on Pentecost when the first 3000 jews were saved that day and will end 2000 years later on Pentecost on the 1335th blessed day of Daniel in the tribulation, but before the bowl judgements.

For those who would like to look at a study involving the death of Herod the Great and the birth of Jesus you may find this interesting, even the timing of the year. I think the Lord was born 4/5 BC from my studies and this man from the UK complements my theory.

Historical Clues About the Date of Jesus' Birth (learnreligions.com)
 

Vindicator

Active member
Nov 11, 2021
228
71
28
#69
Oblio was the name of a character in an animated movie called, "The Point," that came out in the early 70s. Everyone had a point on their head except Oblio, so he was banished from society and had to live in exile in the pointless forest where he faced monsters and other oddballs.
I've always related to him.

Well that's a little depressing, LoL. But I suppose I can relate as well.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#70
Well that's a little depressing, LoL. But I suppose I can relate as well.
It's been the story of my life...I guess I'm just an oddball...I guess. But I do have this...
I am what I am, a child of the Great I Am.
By the blood of the Lamb, the Lamb who was slain.
I'm precious in His sight, the apple of His eye.
I am fearfully and wonderfully made. -tc

(btw...I'm a believer in "You keep what you have by giving it away"...wouldn't want you to think that I was arrogant or anything).
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,023
4,444
113
#71
"Munch, much," is heard as Truman the Norman chomps down on the last of his Pringles. "I'll get to the store, man, to get some more, man, or my name isn't Norman (which it isn't). :rolleyes:
Oops...wrong forum! Lol
Get me some sour cream and onion please along with a nice cold beer.

Thanks Norman.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#72
Antichrist will not be slain until the day Christ comes to slay him. When he sits in the temple proclaiming himself to be God that is the end of his career.

His career of opposing everything god so called or everything worshipped as god ... clearly his career will be to stamp out all religion ... YOU if you are alive when he comes.

It is these things that come on a sudden and the church is quite unprepared for it. It will come suddenly like a came suddenly for the Jews in Germany, suddenly it was bad to be Jewish.
People have been candidates to be the Antichrist throughout history....however, the singular Antichrist who is the fulfillment of the prophecies will not be able to rule and reign until after "the power of the holy people has been scattered" (Daniel 12:7).

Until then, every candidate for the Antichrist will be mere candidates for the position...they will all be stopped by the restraining factor spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2...which I believe is the Holy Spirit in the church.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#74
So I agree that we certainly don't ignore Christ's words, but it is Paul in his letters that gives us the understanding of His words.
Actually Christians must give PRIMACY to the words and teachings of Christ. In any building it is the foundation that supports the building. So the foundation is the primary structure. And Jesus talked upon building upon the Rock which is Christ: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock: (Mt 7:24)
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#75
No one was candidate to be "the" Antichrist...."an" Antichrist, sure.
1Jo 2:18, Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Any one of these has the potential to become the Antichrist as soon as the restraining factor is removed from the earth.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,019
1,268
113
#76
1Jo 2:18, Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Any one of these has the potential to become the Antichrist as soon as the restraining factor is removed from the earth.

No, because all the ones he said were "now" died long ago. Only one can be "the Antichrist" and that is the one found in Revelation 13.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#77
Any one of these has the potential to become the Antichrist as soon as the restraining factor is removed from the earth.
Actually just like Judas Iscariot -- "the son of perdition" -- was a very specific individual, the coming Antichrist -- the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition -- is a very specific individual. Not a random "antichrist".

Now one of the antichrists which is presently on earth is evil and criminal Joseph Biden. He is trying to destroy America by every possible means at his disposal. This is part of Satan's agenda to STEAL, KILL, AND DESTROY.

WAYNE ROOT: The Great Vaccine Mandate Scam
This is the “Great Vaccine Mandate Scam.” Biden is using the vaccine mandate (and vaccine passport to come) as a “Trojan Horse.” In other words, it looks like he’s trying to protect America and save lives, when in reality he’s using this vaccine mandate as a cover story to destroy the U.S. economy, capitalism, and the great American middle class all at once. This is a communist takeover of the US by a small minority at the top who have rigged elections and are now busy high-jacking the country, as if they have some powerful mandate.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/wayne-root-great-vaccine-mandate-scam/

For those who have not noticed, there is already an American Gulag in existence.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#78
Actually Christians must give PRIMACY to the words and teachings of Christ. In any building it is the foundation that supports the building. So the foundation is the primary structure. And Jesus talked upon building upon the Rock which is Christ: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock: (Mt 7:24)
I have lived both sides of the above and attest that it is true.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#79
The apostle Paul writes of perilous times.

2Ti_3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Paul describes what men will be like in these times from verse 2 to verse 7.


Are there any so called "signs of the times"

I am afraid not.

1Th_5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

We are in the dispensation of the grace of God right now.

Eph_3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col_1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

God has dispensed his grace given to Paul our apostle by Jesus Christ.
Have you noticed in that verse above Paul has fulfilled the word of God.
Which means God has said all that he is going to say, through Paul our apostle.

2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Paul writes consider what I say, but when you think about that statement ,he got everything from the risen Christ, even visions and revelations in an abundance.

2Co_12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2Co_12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul had an office given to him by God, he had received the gospel also by Christ to give to us.

Rom_11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Paul was on the wrong road in life, he said he did it in ignorance and unbelief, until the Lord called him by grace, he had come to trust in what Christ had done for us by believing the gospel of Christ.

Paul new whom he had come to believe in with many more after Paul who would gladly lay down their lives for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Have you come to see the light of the gospel given to Paul ?

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Let's dig a little deeper, you post some good verses and one I like to dig in. Let's go back to 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

So let's see a little of this mystery, because Paul also talks about the man who will exalt himself above God, let's go to Matthew 24: 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Now Jesus is leading us right to this mystery, because this organization been in tune for a very very long time.

We are at the end of day’s brothers and sisters and it would behoove us to take heed to Jesus warning and let know man deceive us. Now lets go to Daniel the 7th chapter and run down the abomination of desolation. In Daniel 7: 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Romulus Augustulus was the last Roman Emperor, after him the Roman Empire must rise and fall 10 times. This is what the ten horns represent. This kingdom has risen and fallen nine times. At this very moment the Roman Empire is gaining strength every day for it’s tenth and final ascension. In Daniel below you will see a little horn came up among the ten. This little horn is also alive a well preparing for its defeat by the God of heaven. Three Germanic tribes defeated Romulus Augustulus, thus ending the Ancient Roman Empire. This is where the ten horns come into play.

The little horn that came up among the ten is the Papacy. You will see as we go along in this study that the Pope’s gave the kings there power. This is why Daniel made this statement, “there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots”.

Let's go into Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

This verse is a little beyond us. The one-hour with beast is the “Great Tribulation”. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. The ten Horns which are ten kings represent the European Economic Community.

Notice it said they are of one mind. In the year 2002 they will all be using one common currency (Euro dollar), these are all Roman Catholic nations. Pay close attention to the next set of verses.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty-and two months.

Who gave this beast its power? The dragon (Satan). Notice something else, look at verse 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Here you have your Gentile dynasty. The four beast in Daniel that were separate are now all one. This would represent an alliance, or of one mind.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#80
No, because all the ones he said were "now" died long ago. Only one can be "the Antichrist" and that is the one found in Revelation 13.
My point is that someone who has the antichrist spirit will step into the position of Antichrist as soon as the restraining factor is taken out of the way; and there are many who are like that today.

And a major aspect of the point is that "the" Antichrist may be alive today or he may not yet be born.

And if he has not yet been born, there are people today who would step into the position of Antichrist if they were given the opportunity.

And therefore the church must be vigilant.

Because the real Antichrist will not be allowed to reign "until the power of the holy people has been scattered" (Daniel 12:7).

And the point being, that, this could happen at any time; but that if we stay vigilant as the church, it will not happen for as long as we can keep it at bay.