Seventh Day Adventist
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Here is an interesting little fun fact that I didn't know until recently....
We are having an extra bathroom added on our home where our carport used to be and the builder was talking with me and I said I have one request and that is for him not to work on Saturday and he asked me if I was a Catholic? I said no why do you ask and he said some older Catholics believe you shouldn't work on Saturday. I found that interesting and he said he was a Catholic and I told him I had gone to church with my Aunt and her kids and was raised an SDA but that my husband is a Catholic...
So I learned something I didn't know about....
We are having an extra bathroom added on our home where our carport used to be and the builder was talking with me and I said I have one request and that is for him not to work on Saturday and he asked me if I was a Catholic? I said no why do you ask and he said some older Catholics believe you shouldn't work on Saturday. I found that interesting and he said he was a Catholic and I told him I had gone to church with my Aunt and her kids and was raised an SDA but that my husband is a Catholic...
So I learned something I didn't know about....
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My viewpoint on your last sentence is this.
The Sabbath only becomes a matter when it is a testing truth. Like the Hebrews that wouldn't bow down to the Golden image in Babylon and were thrown into the fire. There testing was worship a man or worship God. They chose to possibly die rather than worship a man... They obeyed God over a man mandate.
So when the Sabbath becomes a testing truth. Worship on Sunday or die if you worship on another day. I would have to obey God rather than a man mandated day of worship. I hope you understand where I am coming from... Hugs to you my friend hope you are feeling well...
The Sabbath only becomes a matter when it is a testing truth. Like the Hebrews that wouldn't bow down to the Golden image in Babylon and were thrown into the fire. There testing was worship a man or worship God. They chose to possibly die rather than worship a man... They obeyed God over a man mandate.
So when the Sabbath becomes a testing truth. Worship on Sunday or die if you worship on another day. I would have to obey God rather than a man mandated day of worship. I hope you understand where I am coming from... Hugs to you my friend hope you are feeling well...
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The question has been asked "Where does the New Testament say we need to keep the fourth Commandment of honoring the Sabbath. My question back is where does it say it stopped?
The first century believers only had the letters that were written to them, however they did have the Old Testament and they new very well that when Jesus said, "If you love me keep my Commandments" what he was referring to. These are not the Mosaic Law-that is the 'works of the law' which was abolished. Where does the New Testament say 'you will have no god's before me', 'you shall not make idols', 'you shall not take the Lord's name in vain?
Yes Adventists may be legalistic about Saturday, but so are 'main stream' denominations about Sunday. I was attending a morning Sunday bible study and someone asked me if I was going to service afterwards and I said 'No'--they then proceeded to tell me I was 'forsaking the assembly'.? What? I felt I was much more in fellowship in the study than I would have been sitting passively in the sanctuary listening to a 20 minute sermon.
Also the verse that says Christ is our Sabbath rest Does He literally give us rest from our daily work or rather does He give us spiritual rest?
The Sabbath is not given to us as a law to keep or a burden to bear, but to rest from our physical labors. Personally, I think believers should have an opportunity to meet every day , rather than gathering one day on Sunday to sit passively listening to a 15-20 min sermon. But if we are together as an assembly, why not do as Jesus did, Paul did, and the first century believers did and gather on Saturday?
"As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,"--Acts 17:2
Paul visited several cities within the region of Galatia-- notice what Luke records in Acts 13 concerning this visit:
The first century believers only had the letters that were written to them, however they did have the Old Testament and they new very well that when Jesus said, "If you love me keep my Commandments" what he was referring to. These are not the Mosaic Law-that is the 'works of the law' which was abolished. Where does the New Testament say 'you will have no god's before me', 'you shall not make idols', 'you shall not take the Lord's name in vain?
Yes Adventists may be legalistic about Saturday, but so are 'main stream' denominations about Sunday. I was attending a morning Sunday bible study and someone asked me if I was going to service afterwards and I said 'No'--they then proceeded to tell me I was 'forsaking the assembly'.? What? I felt I was much more in fellowship in the study than I would have been sitting passively in the sanctuary listening to a 20 minute sermon.
Also the verse that says Christ is our Sabbath rest Does He literally give us rest from our daily work or rather does He give us spiritual rest?
The Sabbath is not given to us as a law to keep or a burden to bear, but to rest from our physical labors. Personally, I think believers should have an opportunity to meet every day , rather than gathering one day on Sunday to sit passively listening to a 15-20 min sermon. But if we are together as an assembly, why not do as Jesus did, Paul did, and the first century believers did and gather on Saturday?
"As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,"--Acts 17:2
Paul visited several cities within the region of Galatia-- notice what Luke records in Acts 13 concerning this visit:
- Paul participates in Sabbath services at the local synagogue (verse 14).
- He notes the practice of reading the Scriptures "every Sabbath" (verse 27).
- Many gentiles beg Paul to preach to them "the next Sabbath" (verse 42).
- "On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God" from Paul and Barnabas (verse 44).
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Sure because according to Paul I will not make it a stumbling block. I'll worship Saturday, Sunday or everyday to make someone be more at ease around me. It is not rather they should be in Heaven or not but a debate over the doctrine that speaks on if people do not worship on Saturday, they are destined to take the Mark aka not gain salvation. That is the heresy.
It was made law in Moses time. But set apart in Genesis ch2. To be accurate the ten commandments was given to the Isrealites. We was given further direction for gentiles in the NT.
It was made law in Moses time. But set apart in Genesis ch2. To be accurate the ten commandments was given to the Isrealites. We was given further direction for gentiles in the NT.
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It stopped when the law was fulfilled. Or as Romans 8 describes.
Romans 8:1-4
New International Version
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
We are set free from the law. The righteous requirement was met in Jesus so we are now seen as righteous. We are the body of Christ, we are the temple. We are considered holy saints but not due to our efforts, only through the lens of Christ.
Colossians 2 makes it more simple.
Colossians 2:16-17
New International Version
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
They were given to the Israelites as to quote “I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them” This in context was set Israel apart from all other nations.
And
“You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day."
This does not include gentiles.
But this was answered in Acts 15.
Acts 15
New International Version
The Council at Jerusalem
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
What commandments we are to keep? The law of Christ which is adhering to the Spirit, love (fruit of the Spirit) and sharing to others this gospel that gives everyone a daily rest for those who adhere to Christ.
Romans 8:1-4
New International Version
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
We are set free from the law. The righteous requirement was met in Jesus so we are now seen as righteous. We are the body of Christ, we are the temple. We are considered holy saints but not due to our efforts, only through the lens of Christ.
Colossians 2 makes it more simple.
Colossians 2:16-17
New International Version
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
They were given to the Israelites as to quote “I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them” This in context was set Israel apart from all other nations.
And
“You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day."
This does not include gentiles.
But this was answered in Acts 15.
Acts 15
New International Version
The Council at Jerusalem
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
What commandments we are to keep? The law of Christ which is adhering to the Spirit, love (fruit of the Spirit) and sharing to others this gospel that gives everyone a daily rest for those who adhere to Christ.
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I guess it was reinstated.
Isaiah 66:22-23
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Isaiah 66:22-23
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
The Sabbath originally was just for the Jews. Eventually the covenant was broken and a long time later God instituted a new covenant first offered to Jews who would accept Christ, then to the rest of the world. All who would accept Christ ie: Christians, would have a new covenant and thus a new Sabbath for rest. It because a spiritual rest rather than a certain day where one rested. A Christian has this spiritual Sabbath always because Christ gives us rest every day. We can also take literal rest from work on any day since Christ is the current concept of a Sabbath.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Christ is our Sabbath rest now.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The Sabbath was one of many things that were shadows of things to come which means they would be fulfilled and replaced with something much greater.
Heb 4:7 Much later God told David to make the promise again, just as I have already said, "If you hear his voice today, don't be stubborn!"
Heb 4:8 If Joshua had really given the people rest, there would not be any need for God to talk about another day of rest.
Heb 4:9 But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
Heb 4:10 On that day God's people will rest from their work, just as God rested from his work.
Heb 4:11 We should do our best to enter that place of rest, so that none of us will disobey and miss going there, as they did.
Here the Sabbath is different and is spoken as a place of rest, the eternity, when we will rest from all the struggles of life, sin and any hardships. It has not yet come, "even though it has not yet come".
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Christ is our Sabbath rest now.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The Sabbath was one of many things that were shadows of things to come which means they would be fulfilled and replaced with something much greater.
Heb 4:7 Much later God told David to make the promise again, just as I have already said, "If you hear his voice today, don't be stubborn!"
Heb 4:8 If Joshua had really given the people rest, there would not be any need for God to talk about another day of rest.
Heb 4:9 But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
Heb 4:10 On that day God's people will rest from their work, just as God rested from his work.
Heb 4:11 We should do our best to enter that place of rest, so that none of us will disobey and miss going there, as they did.
Here the Sabbath is different and is spoken as a place of rest, the eternity, when we will rest from all the struggles of life, sin and any hardships. It has not yet come, "even though it has not yet come".
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Sure but it still remains that religious Jews who deny Jesus still believe in a Messiah making them Messianic Jews by definition. Christian or Christian is far more accurate and differentiates between those who accept Jesus as Messiah and those who believe in a different Messiah.
I was friends with an SDA Pastor of a local church near where I live. I attended a couple bible studies and came to watch a couple of their very dramatic end times movies. I think they get a lot of things correct, but the origins bother me, especially surrounding EW. While most of their teachings are essentially the same as many denominations, there is a bit of cultishness surrounding EW and a few other aspects. I voted "maybe".
Does anyone know if there are progressive SDA churches reject teachings or something similar?
That would be like you denying the Flat Earth while claiming to be a Flat Earther. Do you see where you are heading with this nonsense? "Messianic Jews" is strictly applicable to believing Jews.
Who are Messianic Jews?
The term Messianic Jew is one of several titles by which Jews who have come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah describe themselves. Over the centuries Jews who embraced Jesus have called themselves Nazarenes, Hebrew-Christians, Jewish-Christians, Jewish believers, and Messianic Jews.
https://jewsforjesus.org/jewish-resources/messianic-jews-a-brief-history/
Who are Messianic Jews?
The term Messianic Jew is one of several titles by which Jews who have come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah describe themselves. Over the centuries Jews who embraced Jesus have called themselves Nazarenes, Hebrew-Christians, Jewish-Christians, Jewish believers, and Messianic Jews.
https://jewsforjesus.org/jewish-resources/messianic-jews-a-brief-history/
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There is debate over the reinstatement after the church age.
Isaiah 66:23-24
New International Version
23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
This also has the prophetic language as in saying all mankind will now down and of unquenchable fires for the dead.
Some do believe as Ezekiel chapters 36 through 48 speak on a future temple with reinstatement of the Mosiac laws to involve the millennium kingdom.
While others see this language as a perfected temple where the temple being the body, and that refers to a more perfect union between human and God.
New Heavens and new Earth sounds prophetic for after the millennium kingdom when on Earth God will indwell in the new Jerusalem and we will see a complete perfected union between God and mankind.
Isaiah 66:23-24
New International Version
23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
This also has the prophetic language as in saying all mankind will now down and of unquenchable fires for the dead.
Some do believe as Ezekiel chapters 36 through 48 speak on a future temple with reinstatement of the Mosiac laws to involve the millennium kingdom.
While others see this language as a perfected temple where the temple being the body, and that refers to a more perfect union between human and God.
New Heavens and new Earth sounds prophetic for after the millennium kingdom when on Earth God will indwell in the new Jerusalem and we will see a complete perfected union between God and mankind.