Take with you words...

Hos 14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Rom 10:8, But what saith <the righteousness of faith>? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In order to confess Him as your Lord He must be your Lord. If He is not your Lord then mouthing the words, "Jesus is Lord" is not a confession. Because He is not your Lord; and therefore it is a lie; and therefore you are not agreeing with God (confessing) because God is not saying it; because it is a lie.

Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him (as Lord), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

While I like the Scriptures quoted, and surely agree with them, your comment above is just a bit puzzling........

Jesus does not become Lord of our lives UNTIL we turn to Him and invite Him into our lives to be Lord of our lives. Sinners do not recognize Jesus as Lord of their lives PRIOR to repenting. It is AFTER they repent and ask Jesus into their lives that He becomes Lord of their lives.

This may be what you meant, or you may have been speaking of people who claim to be believers but really are not. The embolden part is the puzzling part of our comment.......

Yes, that it the believing part...that a person receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

The confession part is with the mouth; and it is unto salvation; after Jesus has been received as Lord.

With the heart man believes unto righteousness (receives Jesus as Lord); with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (confessing Jesus as Lord).

If Jesus is not really your Lord, then to say, "Jesus is Lord" would be a lie...and therefore it would not be "confessing" with your mouth the Lord Jesus...since confessing, by definition, is to agree with God. But if Jesus is not really your Lord, then you are not agreeing with God to say that He is...because God is not saying it. Because it is impossible for God to lie.

Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

It is not a lie to say Jesus is Lord because he is Lord. Are you saying one may say Jesus is Lord insincerity and not believe he is Lord?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Someone can mouth the words "Jesus is Lord" when He is not really their Lord.

He even said that, in Luke 6:46; quoted above.

i find all this talk of the Lord of all heaven & earth not being 'my' Lord very strange.
there is nothing and no one in all of Creation that He is not Lord over. all things are His.
He is God whether anyone 'allows' Him to be God or 'invites' Him to be God.


well that's not actually what He says here..

nothing here about 'inviting God to be God'
what's here is descriptive of a wicked servant ((vis a vis many parables, Matthew 18:21-35 for example))
we see the same thing in Matthew 7, where He says not everyone who says lord, lord to Him will enter - but those who do His will, i.e. good and faithful servants, as in Matthew 25, which are juxtaposed with wicked and lazy servants. both are servants; both belong to Him - the one is faithful and the other unfaithful.
you will find nowhere in scripture the idea of 'inviting Him into your heart to be your Master' He is the Lord & no one's opinions or preferences are polled in order to determine that. rather, what is in scripture is the warning to repent, believe & obey Him, because He is LORD & He will come to judge between the profitable & the unprofitable servant, the fruitful & the desolate tree, the faithful & the faithless.

of course it is not quite so simple as i am describing - He also calls all those "His" and "given to Him" distinguishing between sheep and goats, wheat and tares. but in those discourses He doesn't speak as though a goat asks to become a sheep or a tare turns itself into grain. profoundly, He in these analogies says His own sheep will hear, believe and follow Him, He will lose none - but of the goats, that they cannot believe because they are not His sheep. ((!!))

Of course Jesus is the Lord over all.

It remains that there are those who say "Jesus is Lord" but who do not obey Him.

Is He really their Lord?

Perhaps in one sense (since His position is that He is Lord over all).

But not in another (in that they are disobedient servants).

Also, there are those who, when they receive Him, receive Him only as their Saviour...they want Him in their lives as a kind of "fire insurance policy".

But they do not receive Him as their Lord....even though that is who He is.

They do not surrender to His Lordship in their lives.

And in this case, specifically the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Pardon me, but I don't really understand your statement, I enjoyed your verses, but your statement itself is the lie, and I'm going to show you why with scripture itself.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

so no, I just don't understand your words according to the truth that is written, which is contrary with what you decided to write. I think we are to help another's faith, as all have been given a measure a faith.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

My point is, if you wrote it as a rebuke, the rebuke is on you for it.

2 Corinthians 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

1 Corinthians 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

1 Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

And again I will apologize if I'm not understanding your point of why you would write what you did, but it seemed to me, it's exactly what an unbeliever would say to a believer to accuse them. I've read and re-read your statement many times to find any avenue to cut out my statement in this thread you started, "Take with your words", as I said I enjoyed your scriptures, but your commentary, forces me to give my post to it, as directed to the thread by the scripture you chose to present.

ahh, well now, it wasn't just me, Lucy ! , you've got some splainin to do.

Yes, a person cannot say that Jesus is the Lord apart from the Holy Ghost. This does not mean that the Holy Ghost dwells inside of them if they just say it, but it is not the reality.

I think that unbelievers have a point. When believers don't live like they are supposed to, they have a valid excuse not to believe in Christianity. Because if Christianity is real, then it should produce a real change in people's lives.

Phm 1:6, That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

I trust what scripture says, not your viewpoint. you are wrong even now

Unbelievers don't care about what believers have faith in, you have no point anymore than they do other than to push doubt on others, God chastens the believers, not you. Christianity is real, and not for you to judge but whether you be in the faith yourself, all will stand before the judgement seat of Jesus Christ, and by the way saying Jesus is Lord is acknowledging the good in you in Christ Jesus as you put Philemon 1:6 in your reply, and you rebuke yourself again sir according to this very thread. CHRISTIANS!, kindly have tried to show you this, seems you just want to argue. I hope your motives for the thread lead you to better understanding, but my participation is finished in it, I find arguing repulsive, so please disregard anything I said and have a great day.

You can say that "Jesus is Lord" and yet not be saved. In that situation, you simply mouthed the words when Jesus was not really your Lord. You were speaking a lie because you thought that the speaking of it would save you.

In order for the words, "Jesus is Lord" to be a confession in your life, it must be true in your life that Jesus is your Lord.

I believe that it is a valid argument on the part of unbelievers that if Christians are hypocrites, that is a testimony to the fact that the gospel message has no reality in their life.

If therefore, you are showing forth a life that is hypocritical, you are giving that unbeliever a valid excuse to reject the truth of Christianity.

It is not real to you; why should he accept it as real in his own life?

Job 27:8, For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If the ultimate result of becoming a Christian is that I will be a sinner for the rest of my life, why follow Jesus? If the fruit of following Jesus is sin, He might even be the devil.

(...1Jo 2:29, If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him....)

I do not believe that. At least in my own life, He has produced the fruit of holiness.

But if not for that, my experience with some "Christians" who talk a good talk but do not walk the walk, might have caused me to reject Christianity; even after having been a Christian for quite some time.

Because if Jesus is a minister of sin, He may as well be the devil.

I know that that is not who He is; because He has produced the fruit of holiness in my life.

If not for that, I might have rejected Christ for that I would have thought that no one who claims faith in Christ has been set free from sin as was promised by Christ.

If Christ does not set us free from sin, it is just empty religion.

Why follow it then?

So that I can feel comfortable during my transition into the next life?

The God of Christianity is a just judge.

Those who come to Christ as Saviour (but not as Lord) for the sake of comfort may in fact be in for a rude awakening on their day of judgment.

So I guess God didn’t mean what He inspired in 1 Corinthians 12:3.

Of course He meant it.

Someone that is being convicted by the Holy Spirit may indeed mouth the words "Jesus is my Lord" because they think that that will save them. They have been convicted of judgment by the Holy Spirit and want to be saved.

That does not mean that they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

They say that Jesus is the Lord by the Holy Ghost... because He convicted them. They wouldn't have said it apart from that.

But again, Jesus says,

Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

The answer to His question is, it is because they think that by calling Him Lord, they will get a free ticket into heaven.

But as I have said, if He is not really their Lord, it is not a confession.

Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Read the relevant texts more closely.

Explain it to me, what you see in the texts.

I am not going to see them through your eyes all by my lonesome.