What’s Better? Edifying Yourself or Edifying Others?

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SophieT

Guest
#21
#21
Nehemiah6 said:
But some have turned this chapter on its head and claimed that it is all about self-edification!
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as far as that particular statement goes, I do not think this is true. you do not accept the concept of self-edification to begin with, to, to you, it sounds all about self self self...but it is not.

Paul actually states those who pray in tongues edify themselves. and that really does happen
 
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SophieT

Guest
#22
#22
SophieT said:
it does seem like most if not many, would rather just talk to the folks then address God
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Nehemiah6 said:
Is that what you get from that passage, or are you simply being sarcastic because it has hit a nerve?
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how's your prayer life? good? now ask almost 90% on any Sunday and watch the evasive responses

I am very far from being sarcastic at this point...although I do sprinkle humor often enough...works as a great communicative device, but it is also my natural way to communicate
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#23
Jul 18, 2017
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#23
Magenta said:
How can anyone edify others if they do not first edify themselves?
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That is not the point of what Paul was saying. Kindly go back and see what he wanted Christians to understand regarding spiritual gifts. Others should be edifying you while you are edifying others.

"...in the N. T. metaphorically, "edifying, edification, i. e. the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, holiness, happiness" -- Thayer's Greek Lexicon.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#24
Jun 30, 2015
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#24
Nehemiah6 said:
That is not the point of what Paul was saying. Kindly go back and see what he wanted Christians to understand regarding spiritual gifts. Others should be edifying you while you are edifying others.

"...in the N. T. metaphorically, "edifying, edification, i. e. the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, holiness, happiness" -- Thayer's Greek Lexicon.
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Thayer went farther than is appropriate. Edifying is building up; the object of the edification is not implied in the word itself.

Like I stated previously, edification is objectively good. While edifying others is preferable, edifying yourself is in no way a bad thing.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#25
#25
Nehemiah6 said:
That is not the point of what Paul was saying. Kindly go back and see what he wanted Christians to understand regarding spiritual gifts. Others should be edifying you while you are edifying others.

"...in the N. T. metaphorically, "edifying, edification, i. e. the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, holiness, happiness" -- Thayer's Greek Lexicon.
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you mean like what goes on in this forum?

again, nothing good happens without the Holy Spirit and people who are moved by Him

you cannot edify anyone from your own flesh...the world is the best example of that

in the sense Paul is speaking from, he means under the leadership of the Spirit of God
 
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SophieT

Guest
#26
#26
Nehemiah6 said:
B. Those who speak in tongues DO NOT edify others
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IMO, this is the big tripping point right there since you do not believe this is for today

that, has thrown off your understanding about the entire passage and instruction
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#27
Feb 24, 2009
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#27
SophieT said:
I am somewhat amazed you do not seem to see that a person cannot pass anything on if they do not first achieve it or learn it themself

you disagree with speaking in tongues and therefore you disagree with the fact that a person is edified when they pray in tongues

in fact, how can you understand how the gifts work at all if you choose to leave a few out?

if you want to be a teacher, you have to first learn what it is you want to teach...and I mean this in the sense of school...so how much more if you want to handle things of God? as it is, we are told not many should presume to teach

we are talking about gifts from God that are still being distributed....do people abuse the gifts? yes. do people who do not believe in the validity of the gifts abuse their positions? we all know they do

so here we are. at a crossroads for many
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Is it do not believe in the validity of gifts.. or believe that the time they were for... has passed and fulfilled?

The former is kinda like saying the gifts NEVER were in operation.. which is a non-christian position.. the latter is saying the Holy Spirit used them for a time completely as in the bible and then they fulfilled their purpose.
 
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SophieT

Guest
#28
#28
wattie said:
Is it do not believe in the validity of gifts.. or believe that the time they were for... has passed and fulfilled?

The former is kinda like saying the gifts NEVER were in operation.. which is a non-christian position.. the latter is saying the Holy Spirit used them for a time completely as in the bible and then they fulfilled their purpose.
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the gifts are still available
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#29
Feb 24, 2009
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#29
SophieT said:
the gifts are still available
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Yes that is what you believe, but you typed that people like me are saying they are not valid.

Not valid sounds like never being used, which I dont believe.

They were being used and were valid. And you can still count faith, hope and love as gifts.

So its sign and ministry gifts passing that I am convinced happened, but 3 gifts still remain. Faith, hope and love
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#30
May 23, 2012
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#30
wattie said:
Is it do not believe in the validity of gifts.. or believe that the time they were for... has passed and fulfilled?

The former is kinda like saying the gifts NEVER were in operation.. which is a non-christian position.. the latter is saying the Holy Spirit used them for a time completely as in the bible and then they fulfilled their purpose.
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that is not true the bible doesn't say they were used for a time and and fulfilled it.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#32
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
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#32
CS1 said:
that is not true the bible doesn't say they were used for a time and and fulfilled it.
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Well if the perfect thing in 1 Corinthians 13 is the complete revelation of Gods Word thru the canon.. 3 gifts still remain, but the others fulfilled their purpose.

This position isn't that the gifts were NEVER valid, or that the Holy Spirit doesn't work today.

That is a non-christian teaching.

The Holy Spirit still guides,teaches,rebukes, convicts, encourages, can be offended.. seals believers... is in the midst of a local church... is fully God... etc..

Anyway... repeating myself. Point being the cessation position isn't denying the Holy Spirits power, but honoring that God doesn't work the same way all thru history with people.
 
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SophieT

Guest
#33
#33
wattie said:
Yes that is what you believe, but you typed that people like me are saying they are not valid.

Not valid sounds like never being used, which I dont believe.

They were being used and were valid. And you can still count faith, hope and love as gifts.

So its sign and ministry gifts passing that I am convinced happened, but 3 gifts still remain. Faith, hope and love
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that's an old tired argument you have going on there and this thread is not even about that

I believe what is written in scripture and don't say I said things I never said

they WERE being used and WERE valid means you are a cessationist.

again, there are plenty of threads on the gifts and tongues in particular so I'm not responding to this again as there is no point in diverting yet another thread into something that has been hashed to DEATH
 
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SophieT

Guest
#34
#34
wattie said:
Anyway... repeating myself. Point being the cessation position isn't denying the Holy Spirits power, but honoring that God doesn't work the same way all thru history with people.
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that is your opinion

let's not turn this thread into that debate. it has been done multiple of multiple times and you can always resurrect one if you want

no one mentioned you by name in this thread...you inserted yourself and made claims as if someone personally accused you

why would you do that? (not really asking)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#35
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
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#35
wattie said:
Well if the perfect thing in 1 Corinthians 13 is the complete revelation of Gods Word thru the canon.. 3 gifts still remain, but the others fulfilled their purpose.

This position isn't that the gifts were NEVER valid, or that the Holy Spirit doesn't work today.

That is a non-christian teaching.

The Holy Spirit still guides,teaches,rebukes, convicts, encourages, can be offended.. seals believers... is in the midst of a local church... is fully God... etc..

Anyway... repeating myself. Point being the cessation position isn't denying the Holy Spirits power, but honoring that God doesn't work the same way all thru history with people.
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I appreciate your explanation of your position. Can you please explain how this would have made sense to the Corinthian church at that time, when the gifts were plainly in evidence? If the interpretation is sound, it will make sense for them and for us.

If you propose that all gifts other than "faith, hope, and love" ended at some point between AD 50 and today, please explain from the text what justifies that view, and when the gifts (allegedly) ended.
 
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SophieT

Guest
#36
#36
Dino246 said:
I appreciate your explanation of your position. Can you please explain how this would have made sense to the Corinthian church at that time, when the gifts were plainly in evidence? If the interpretation is sound, it will make sense for them and for us.

If you propose that all gifts other than "faith, hope, and love" ended at some point between AD 50 and today, please explain from the text what justifies that view, and when the gifts (allegedly) ended.
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oh not again.

this thread is about edification and I wonder if we could not keep it there since there are myriads of threads for cessationists to iron things out in?

you can just ignore me of course.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#37
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
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#37
SophieT said:
that is your opinion

let's not turn this thread into that debate. it has been done multiple of multiple times and you can always resurrect one if you want

no one mentioned you by name in this thread...you inserted yourself and made claims as if someone personally accused you

why would you do that? (not really asking)
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No harm intended, I gotbthe wrong impression.. apologies 😃
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#38
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,862
113
#38
SophieT said:
oh not again.

this thread is about edification and I wonder if we could not keep it there since there are myriads of threads for cessationists to iron things out in?

you can just ignore me of course.
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Fair point. I considered this... about six minutes after I made my post. D'oh...
 
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SophieT

Guest
#40
#40
Dino246 said:
Fair point. I considered this... about six minutes after I made my post. D'oh...
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oh thanks so much...appreciate it....I am just so up to here with the cessationist baggage :eek:;)

to explain further, I guess, I have recently read remarks from MacArthur he made at his strange fire conference...that was some years back but he is still the same. truly horrible remarks that are unjustified and just gross exaggeration. he's got a problem

thanks again
 
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