How to defend the doctrine of the Holy Trinity

As for the forgiving.. have a look at the context surrounding each of these quotes. That is the key. They do not stand alone.

So for example.. The Holy Spirit can be initially rejected for salvation.. as can Jesus and the Father.. now this isn't going to be forgiven because the person is rejecting salvation in the first place.

So-- you see Pharisees attributing Christ's work to the devil, rejecting salvation from Christ.. and the Holy Spirit who indwells a person at salvation. They are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Now.. a person who gets saved..gets salvation.. they will be forgiven blasphemy because they are already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.. already saved. They effectively really can't commit this sin if it means rejecting salvation to begin with.

Also a saved person who sins against Jesus-- will be forgiven all sin past present and future. Same deal.

Someone already saved.. all sin forgiven, past, present and future..(altho of course not without rebuke and discipline and admonishment from God if they fail in their walk).. they can't really blaspheme Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Father because they already believed.

Someone rejecting salvation to begin with-- like the Pharisees.. they are blaspheming.

that is a lot of confused mumbo jumbo

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

Rejecting salvation is a non-starter. Those that do not RSVP the invitation to the dinner party are barred. No invite, no meal. Those that RSVPed, must wear black and white, as requested by the Host or they will not be allowed into the dinner hall because of dress code violations.

In the land of the living, one should say "Dude, stop wearing the hawaiian shirt with tye dyed shorts and flip flops, you won't make it past the dress code. But don't you worry, you can RSVP anytime except if you are dead. The rich guy tried but to no effect"

In addition to the dress code, there is a rule about conduct. For example, tell the other guests the wrong directions to the dinner hall, slashing the tires of the other guests so you can have a better seat when they arrive late, etc..etc. is a sin against 1) the other guests that have RVSPed 2) the Host who sent the invitation 3) the Father of the Host who printed it. The letterhead is from the Father's company, signed "Always with you in Spirit". You might say that how can the Host know and didn't He say all will be forgiven. Well He's going to check all the CCTVs surrounding the estate along with you cell phone calls as you arrive and His Father's estate is vast and He is well connected. As to "all is forgiven", no. Insult the Host, sure - life has a lot of twist and turns. But, intentionally or unitentionally thwarting someone`s salvation because of your needs will get you a "Deny access" red card. You may ask "even unintentionally"? Is it not written, the Law is knowledge of sin. Those who are ignorant of it will be punish. Those who know and still sin. Doubly so. Also insult the Father of the Host in any way is a no-no, whether intentional or unintentional. So let me say, God is not the author of sin.

Just as part of God's Glory is His Choice to Love us, so is our faith more genuine if we freely choose to love Him. Obedience freely given is unbreakable, obedience because of compulsion is slavery of the lowest kind. Will a person loving God die in His Name, or will someone who likes His Perks.
Blasphemy against God and God's Spirit will not be forgiven, it is written. In my concept of free will, I can blaspheme, but God will chose to Deny - simple, no mysteries In the world of predestination and uncondtional election, the truth is moot or non-existent. The mechanisms/rules/nitty gritties are all mysterious that only the elect seem to know (or don't know). But, just in case, do not test your doctrine of election and go full blasphemous.

The doctrine of grace is also not Scriptural. You may choose to have faith, but it may not render you the Grace in the Eyes of God. A creature cannot compell the Creator. You must demonstrate your obedience to find Grace. Faith without works is dead. It is written.
Holiness is not relative. Will God agree with one's grace self-assessment? I recommend to follow the Bible and not some greek philosophers in pyjamas. The Bible is plainly written and a truly objective compass to find Grace. What does God thinks of the teachings of man. It is written.

Athuorial intent would be according to the Author. without the Originals, we have the Bible + Spirit + All who have ever been inspired by the Spirit and wrote down their thoughts thoughout the years -- the Body of Christ.(?)

and there is seeking. there is much confusion (Tower of Bable Syndrome and / or just not knowing what it all might mean when one reads the Scriptures). if we seek truth from God (not just our own Interpretation) -- we must be willing to grow in Truth -- and leave all our previous interpretations and/ or ideas as much as we are shown (by God /Spirit) where we must... and/ or put them into proper perspective... i.e. "this was a level... now I understand different and / or more in depth". this changes the interpretation -- for the // - true - // seeker. level upon level, here a little there a little.

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

“For who is greater (μείζων), the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves.” (Luke 22:27)

Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end. During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him, Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God, got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?” Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.” Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.” Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

So when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again (cf. Luke 22:27), He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. (John 13:1-15)

All am saying is that Jesus is not omniscient, he rejected this attribute by stating that "Only God knows of that day, not even the angels or anyone"

“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” (Matthew 11:27)

“Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the East; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from East to West by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the North and the other half toward the South. You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.” (Zechariah 14:1-7)

“They also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.’ Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey away” (Acts 1:11-12).

“And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.”

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

Using John 14:28 is a rather amateur move. This is not a text you should be using if you're trying to disprove the Trinity. By citing such a text, you are only demonstrating that you have misunderstood—even distorted—the very point Jesus is trying to make.

The term μείζων (“greater”) is speaking about a position of authority. For example, in Luke 22:27 it states,



This should immediately cause one to recall Philippians 2, where in the incarnation, Jesus—who being equal with God—divested Himself and took on the form of a servant (cf. 2 Cor. 8:9). Ironically, this servant motif (as found in Philippians 2) is picked up in John 13,



The point of Jesus’ words in 14:28 is this: As long as He remains on earth as a servant, He will experience true limitations. But there will come a time—in fulfillment of Ps. 110:1—by virtue of His ascension, when He will once more taken back up those glorious garments and recline once again at the right hand of God the Father on high. He will no longer function as the Father’s subordinate, but will be given all authority in heaven and on earth. Jesus had humbled Himself in the incarnation and was going back to the Father, where He will be anointed with oil, and crowned King. This is the reason the disciples would have “rejoiced.” If you want the full impact, all one needs to do is read Hebrews 1, which is an interpretation of the coronation of the King. Notice the setting in Hebrews 1:3 ("After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high").

Well I'm not talking of calvinism predestination. I am talking of receiving Jesus as Saviour by free will and then having a place in heaven guaranteed, predestined.

So its predestined only on believing first.

We would need to look at an example in scripture of someone who committed blasphemy after being eternally saved to get a conclusive answer.

Rejecting the means by which salvation is given to begin with seems to be the case when I see blaspheme mentioned.

Anyway.. back to the trinity, the point I was making is the 3 expressions of God .. each is fully God.

The book of John shows this with Jesus referring to Himself being equal with the Father.

The Holy Spirit is referred to in the OT as Gods Spirit.

You cant get away from the fact all are fully God.

Gooday mate.

Wassup?

Another round with cancer and degenerative bone surgery. So, far a doctor and two nurses are asking questions about Jesus. Also, witnessing to JWs and LDS on quota. They create a post about their false religions, not expecting an intelligent response.

Another round with cancer and degenerative bone surgery. So, far a doctor and two nurses are asking questions about Jesus. Also, witnessing to JWs and LDS on quota. They create a post about their false religions, not expecting an intelligent response.

... authorial intent is what one can possibly receive when you understand the literary context. Seeking the "meaning".
to do so we must look at all areas of scripture to seek what the authorial intended to say.

• who did he say it to?
• What was the time frame it was said?
• why did he say it?
• how did they apply it then?
• how do we apply it today?

Athuorial intent would be according to the Author. without the Originals, we have the Bible + Spirit + All who have ever been inspired by the Spirit and wrote down their thoughts thoughout the years -- the Body of Christ.(?)

and there is seeking. there is much confusion (Tower of Bable Syndrome and / or just not knowing what it all might mean when one reads the Scriptures). if we seek truth from God (not just our own Interpretation) -- we must be willing to grow in Truth -- and leave all our previous interpretations and/ or ideas as much as we are shown (by God /Spirit) where we must... and/ or put them into proper perspective... i.e. "this was a level... now I understand different and / or more in depth". this changes the interpretation -- for the // - true - // seeker. level upon level, here a little there a little.