What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

right off the bat two things jumped out at me in the opening remarks

1. the idea of something " positive " out of hell.
2. Jesus is the authority on the subject of Hell and HE said Matthew 24:42

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

The reason why the "traditional view" of hell being a place of eternal punishment is because Jesus said so.

Hell is not only separation from God it is also the reward of the wicked. The devil is an eternal spiritual being hell was "created ".

To understand hell we must ask how was it made? and why was it made?

God made hell and eternal place to remind us
1. He is eternal
2. He gives eternal life
3. and HE is the eternal judge
4. He gives us the choice to chose HIm or death hell and the grave. Jesus overcame all three. To deny the eternal condition of Hell is to weaken the position of Christ's Victory. The word of God only from human intellect will see hell as not eternal because of language that is applied in the fleshly context. Meaning how can hell be eternal if I am utterly destroyed? bone and flesh cannot stand forever in that. That is true BUT God who created the spirit of man as He did hell made them supernatural and eternal.

The word of God says that Jesus would not suffer corruption or decay that was why HE was raised from the Dead.

right off the bat two things jumped out at me in the opening remarks

1. the idea of something " positive " out of hell.
2. Jesus is the authority on the subject of Hell and HE said Matthew 24:42

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

The reason why the "traditional view" of hell being a place of eternal punishment is because Jesus said so.

Hell is not only separation from God it is also the reward of the wicked. The devil is an eternal spiritual being hell was "created ".

To understand hell we must ask how was it made? and why was it made?

God made hell and eternal place to remind us
1. He is eternal
2. He gives eternal life
3. and HE is the eternal judge
4. He gives us the choice to chose HIm or death hell and the grave. Jesus overcame all three. To deny the eternal condition of Hell is to weaken the position of Christ's Victory. The word of God only from human intellect will see hell as not eternal because of language that is applied in the fleshly context. Meaning how can hell be eternal if I am utterly destroyed? bone and flesh cannot stand forever in that. That is true BUT God who created the spirit of man as He did hell made them supernatural and eternal.

The word of God says that Jesus would not suffer corruption or decay that was why HE was raised from the Dead.

right off the bat two things jumped out at me in the opening remarks

1. the idea of something " positive " out of hell.
2. Jesus is the authority on the subject of Hell and HE said Matthew 24:42

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

The reason why the "traditional view" of hell being a place of eternal punishment is because Jesus said so.

Hell is not only separation from God it is also the reward of the wicked. The devil is an eternal spiritual being hell was "created ".

To understand hell we must ask how was it made? and why was it made?

God made hell and eternal place to remind us
1. He is eternal
2. He gives eternal life
3. and HE is the eternal judge
4. He gives us the choice to chose HIm or death hell and the grave. Jesus overcame all three. To deny the eternal condition of Hell is to weaken the position of Christ's Victory. The word of God only from human intellect will see hell as not eternal because of language that is applied in the fleshly context. Meaning how can hell be eternal if I am utterly destroyed? bone and flesh cannot stand forever in that. That is true BUT God who created the spirit of man as He did hell made them supernatural and eternal.

The word of God says that Jesus would not suffer corruption or decay that was why HE was raised from the Dead.

I do not watch videos. But here is my thought:

ANNIHILATIONISM MUST BE ANNIHILATED BY THE TRUTH.

Dear Radius,

Fire in this context signifies COMPLETE AND TOTAL destruction-- if a fire were to burn forever, then the thing it burned would be completely destroyed.

it is important to note that this is a parable. Jesus said he spoke to the people in parables and used figurative language.--see verses below Note too, it is the FIRE burning forever, not the angels and the demons; they are spiritual beings, therefore they do not consist of matter, therefore cannot burn.

But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” (Exodus 33:20)

This is what scriptures says. Only those covered by the righteousness of Christ will live--forever.

How important it is to let go of long held doctrine and instead consider what the scriptures actually mean--and the only way to do this is to take of the lens of long held doctrine.

"'Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable' (Mt 13:34),

"“Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father."--John 16:25

If this doctrine were clothes that one had to wear, they would be ashamed as they would be completed covered in holes.

anyone watch the video? Thoughts?

Also,

Hell is the place of the dead--note that 'Hell' is thrown into the lake of fire, Hell cannot be thrown into Hell. Hell, Sheol, Hades are ALL the place of the dead.

I think ultimately we aren't required to have a perfect understanding in order to be saved. Either perspective is consistent with scripture. The next step is therefore to determine which one we find more compelling.

Let's follow the steps that are described in scripture:
1. A person dies. They either:
A) sleep in death
B) remain awake in a good state of mind
C) remain awake in torment (Rich man in Hades, if that parable was literal)
2. People remain in that previous state until the day of judgement. The day of judgement happens and the resurrection occurs. People either:
A) Have their name in the book of life and eventually enter purification.
B) Are not listed in the book of life and are cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and the false prophets.
3. The saved are purified. Satan and the false prophets are tormented. It is unclear whether the other category are awake or annihilated but the 'smoke of their torment rises forever'.
4. The phrasing for the torment is "everlasting" but the Greek word can also be understood as "perpetually". Earth and heaven fade away. If the Lake of Fire is located in earth, it too fades away. "Fading" could be understood as disappearing/annihilation but it could also be understood figuratively, simply as a change of focus in John the Revelator's vision. Assuming the lake of fire is in earth, either:
A) the unsaved are annihilated when the first earth and heaven fade away.
B) The unsaved have simply faded out of view, but remain in unending torment in the first earth.

This feels like one of those conversations about "how tall was Moses' staff?" It feels trivial but people will vehemently argue over it. Annihilationism makes more sense to me, but I don't see it as a show-stopper if someone came to a different conclusion.

I suppose an interesting question to ask those opposed to annihilationism: When the negative and sinful parts of your life are removed during the judgement day purification, are those parts of you annihilated or do they continue to exist eternally separated from God?

I think ultimately we aren't required to have a perfect understanding in order to be saved. Either perspective is consistent with scripture. The next step is therefore to determine which one we find more compelling.

Let's follow the steps that are described in scripture:
1. A person dies. They either:
A) sleep in death
B) remain awake in a good state of mind
C) remain awake in torment (Rich man in Hades, if that parable was literal)
2. People remain in that previous state until the day of judgement. The day of judgement happens and the resurrection occurs. People either:
A) Have their name in the book of life and eventually enter purification.
B) Are not listed in the book of life and are cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and the false prophets.
3. The saved are purified. Satan and the false prophets are tormented. It is unclear whether the other category are awake or annihilated but the 'smoke of their torment rises forever'.
4. The phrasing for the torment is "everlasting" but the Greek word can also be understood as "perpetually". Earth and heaven fade away. If the Lake of Fire is located in earth, it too fades away. "Fading" could be understood as disappearing/annihilation but it could also be understood figuratively, simply as a change of focus in John the Revelator's vision. Assuming the lake of fire is in earth, either:
A) the unsaved are annihilated when the first earth and heaven fade away.
B) The unsaved have simply faded out of view, but remain in unending torment in the first earth.

This feels like one of those conversations about "how tall was Moses' staff?" It feels trivial but people will vehemently argue over it. Annihilationism makes more sense to me, but I don't see it as a show-stopper if someone came to a different conclusion.

I suppose an interesting question to ask those opposed to annihilationism: When the negative and sinful parts of your life are removed during the judgement day purification, are those parts of you annihilated or do they continue to exist eternally separated from God?

Why was hell made? For Lucifer and the angels that rebelled against God with him.
Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft the word says. Rebellion ( disobedience and unbelief are two grievous sins.)
God created Lucifer with all the beauty we can never imagine and a voice to sing awesome praise to him.
Pride got in the way then rebellion.

Revelations tells of the angel that keeps the key where Satan will go and then be loosed after the thousand years to pull more into destruction with him.

If you believe ETERNAL,means forever til there is no more then why would you believe the wicked and ungodly will escape the ETERNAL torment in the lake of fire where the fire is NOT quenched nor the worm dieth.

Why serve him if when we are unbelieving and disobedient the suffering will ONLY be for a short time then its over.
Yes God is merciful and loving but he is also a God of wrath!

Dear Radius,

Fire in this context signifies COMPLETE AND TOTAL destruction-- if a fire were to burn forever, then the thing it burned would be completely destroyed.

it is important to note that this is a parable. Jesus said he spoke to the people in parables and used figurative language.--see verses below Note too, it is the FIRE burning forever, not the angels and the demons; they are spiritual beings, therefore they do not consist of matter, therefore cannot burn.

But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” (Exodus 33:20)

This is what the scriptures say. Only those covered by the righteousness of Christ will live--forever.

How important it is to let go of long-held doctrine and instead consider what the scriptures actually mean--and the only way to do this is to take the lens of long-held doctrine.

"'Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable (Mt 13:34),

"“Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father."--John 16:25

If this doctrine were clothes that one had to wear, they would be ashamed as they would be completed covered in holes.

Also,

Hell is the place of the dead--note that 'Hell' is thrown into the lake of fire, Hell cannot be thrown into Hell. Hell, Sheol, Hades are ALL the place of the dead.

Dear Jocund, I like the way you laid this out, but there are a bits I wonder about, namely that you say it is trivial. Note that many innocent people have suffered over the years thinking their loved ones are being eternally tormented. Have you ever burned your finger on the stove? Just mulitiply that by a trillion to the 10th power if eternal torment were to be true. Also it attributes evil to God--this is the very worst of it.

Also,

Hell is the place of the dead--note that 'Hell' is thrown into the lake of fire, Hell cannot be thrown into Hell. Hell, Sheol, Hades are ALL the place of the dead.

I know you weren't addressing me Laura but 2 things to consider.

1 You can't call a soveriegn God evil for bringing eternal punishment. You can't judge God.
God is longsuffering & has endured much pain & sorrow himself in order to spare everyone the
fate of eternity locked away from his presence.

2 Burning a body isn't the same as burning a spirit being. Spirits can't be annhilated with fire.
They can only continue to burn.
They can be locked up away from God for eternity. The burning of that seperation is the torment.
No effort on God's part is required to torment souls, he only has to cut them off from his presence.

We choose God or we don't. The alternative is eternal burning.
There is no relief of annihilation if we choose to be without him.

Do not fear those who can kill the body, rather fear the One who can destroy both body and SOUL in hell"

and there will be only righteousness in the new heavens and earth. There will be no sin, no evil, no demons, no devil, etc.

2 Peter 3:13
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.