Earth Age

In your previous post, you didn't mention the earth being void. You just said "scripture tells us..." and added a general statement instead of a quotation.

In that verse, "void" likely means without features and without creatures... perhaps like the inside of a clean empty glass bowl.

Let's look at the first couple of verses (from the NIV)

1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Notice that the words, "God created" precede "the heavens and the earth" which in turn precede "formless and empty ('void'). The previously-created earth was formless and empty. At that point God had done nothing else with it, so it was "formless", and He had not created any living things, so it was "empty".

Do you see this differently?

All I did in my post was copy scripture, you are making a federal case against me over this copy of scripture. Take it up with the Lord, and leave me out of your scrapping and nit picking.

I love your optimism.

You didn't copy it; you paraphrased it. There's a distinct difference. Your paraphrase of Scripture is not Scripture. Let's discuss Scripture, not your paraphrases thereof.

Can you and I actually speak about scripture and not ho TERRRIIIBBBLLLE blik is, that is wonderful.

I don't think that man can comprehend all that God did when God created our earth, and I think if it was important to us then God would have given us more details about this creation. What is important for us to understand is that God is our creator and that the first thing God did for us when Adam and Eve brought on death for us was give us a plan that saves us from this death.

Science has made a big case about how much smarter they are than God---I am being snide. They have said that they have proven the world is older than scripture tells us it is, so they use it to say scripture is not truth. Scripture IS truth, and if they are right then scripture is telling us there was something here for them to look at to make these claims. I don't think there is importance in our knowing exactly how the earth was before God started creating it, I do think it is of extreme importance to know God is the creator and speaks truth.

Genesis 1

New International Version

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Why do you feel the need to perpetuate talking about this?


Agreed.


I agree with your "extreme importance" comment, but not with the one previous.

As I already demonstrated and explained, God created the earth in the beginning, so there is no "before God started creating it". Perhaps you mean before God starting creating things on the earth? That would make sense, but it doesn't take into account the clear references to time. Usually, it's only those who want to force-fit "science" into the Bible who question the concept of standard days.

Nothing changes..

Not at all, Evening and Morning simply means beginning and ending of a day, in this instant that time period is the beginning and end of a period of time that began with Complete Darkness (there were no Stars for the first 400 million years) and thus ended with sunlight being birthed AND the Earth coming into form when OUR Sun was Birthed, no planet can come into existence without a Star to revive around.

So from the big bang and its total DARKNESS (Evening) to the DAYBREAK of our Sun (Morning), there were 9.2 billion years of time that elapsed.

The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) mapped out our whole universe about 20 or so years ago with microwaves, so we can see the whole Universe from its beginning until now, and we now know there was 400 million years of Darkness, this is why the Evening coming first and then the Morning !! Now does it make sense that the word YOWM actually means "TO BE HOT" ? God is thus basing the word off of the Creation He created which in essence = TIMES BIRTH !! Thus all references are about a PERIOD OF TIME IN GENERAL !! A year, a month, a day, or even 9.2 billion years, or as with other days in the "days of creation" some were 350 million years in my estimation, so were more or less according to the events that are spoken of.

Now think of how this actually PROVES the Bible correct.


Genesis 1;1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. { So the TIME PERIOD being spoken of as pertaining unto the FIRST DAY starts with the Creation of the Heaven and extends all the way to the Earth is formed, GET IT ? }

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

So, God is saying here that the Earth is not around yet but the order for it to come into existence has been given, thus it has no form and is VOID (not there yet), and thus DARKNESS WAS ON THE FACE OF THE DEEP, and that is what the WMAP map shows us, 400 million Years of Darkness, so God Hmself (no man was there, LOL) is describing creation unto us, and He told us there was TOTAL DARKNESS, and this WMAP map backs up what God says !! BOOM !! Then it says God's Spirit moved on the FACE OF THE WATERS, and afterward God said LET THERE BE LIGHT because sunlight on our earth is only able to light up our earth because of a biodome/biosphere called the Atmosphere which holds moisture in. Without this biodome holding in moisture, a sunbeam would just travel in a straight beam of light and would not illuminate anything outside of its path. So, God is telling us things man hasn't been able to comprehend until recently, but now we have men who are stuck in OLD MEN'S TRADITIONS and reuse to understand that this WMAP map, actually proves God's Holy Word to be TRUTH.

A part of my old Blog on this below:

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes transparent to light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of stars begins, the first of which appears about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off. Because science is only a journey from the unknown unto the known, and God is indeed that Creator whom we know, but they don't.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the earth & the sun's formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the third day (period of time) then on the fourth day, it seems "God set the Seasons" or placed the moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth are supposed to have collided. Anyway, that sets the seasons, times, years, etc., etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A rudimentary deciphering of how the things God says in His Holy word and science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner as per the dates, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there, only God was.

On the fifth day, God created the sea animals/birds and whatnot, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the sixth day, around 300–350 million years B.C. God created the land animals. During this period of time, the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 million years ago. Then, during this “TIME PERIOD” (6th day), God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some people might protest that men have been around much longer than 6000 years, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back any further than about 6000 years ago. Now as per “Men” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said animal-like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago when God placed His spirit in us, and thus we are immortal beings in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in God's Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing to me because scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 billion years ago. So it's not necessarily either-or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian, I have noticed some Christians are just as stuck in wrong-think as atheists are, the one thinks he knows it all, the other misunderstands God's Holy word because he can't reason things through and thus both are at loggerheads with each other, and IMHO, both are wrong, we as Christians always need to lead with the TRUTH and thus Satan's lies get exposed via the spotlight of truth. We can never reach some people if we insist the Universe is 6000 years old, and our A-1 Job is to reach the lost with the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is based on TRUTH.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking….

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven (SPACE) and the earth (MATTER).

This is just nonsensical, God created the Lights in the Univers so that they do not obey the Laws of Nature, which is what God used to create this universe with, so He could "HURRY UP" the process, what God doesn't need to HURRY UP ANYTHING, God lives in ALL TIME and thus as soon as God created the Universe He was already living in the Creation's endpoint, just as He was the Begining point, and all points in between, so please explain to me why God would need to break the Laws of Nature (He Himself created) just hurry up the process when 1.) God is never impatient and 2.) God lives in ALL TIME at once. So, I guess you are saying God just hurried it all up to hurry it up, which as I stated is NONSENSICAL. The Laws of Nature do not change because God didn't need to hurry anything up, that's coming from your mind and other people like you, trying to prove a point, when your understanding is just wrong think, you try to bend the facts to meet your understanding in this case.

I mean my brother is one of those who heard a guy on the internet say there is no outer space, it's a flat earth, etc. and it was all I could do not to laugh him to shame, he's over 40 and falling for this stuff, and he's is an intelligent lad (most of the time).

As pe you ending the Debate............... You made me think of my brother's rabbit hole. That speaks volumes.

Well, I agree it doesn't matter at all per se as pertaining to time in general, but here is how it does matter. Let's say some souls are lost because they look at our Six-Day Creation understanding and the first thing they say is well, they lied about Santa Clause, its a fable, they are probably also lying about Jesus, and this 6 Day Creation understanding lets me know they are a deceived group of people, the light travels at a certain speed, thus we know how old the Universe really is, thus I will never believe anything a Christan tells me about "His God" and thus if we lose souls because we are too stiff-necked to come unto the truth, then God will not be pleased. Thus it really does matter if we LOS SOULS to Satan because w allowed ourselves to be deceived by Satan.

this is nonsensical.

It claim God has no power. And he is relegated to the laws of physics and science. So in order for him to allow light to be on earth he had to wait all these years for light to get on earth For man to be able to use them, Then he had to wait for many years for the earth to take shape and do what it needed to do so that earth could sustain mankind. Then of course he had to wait many years for the earth atmosphere to take shape so it could sustain man, which took plant an animal life to grow to the point that the perfect O2 level was there for there to be perfect everything in the garden of eden.

So God basically created the heavens and the earth, then sat twiddling his thumbs while his creation matured enough so he could insert mankind into this perfect garden of eden?

Ot he created it as required so that in the time he created it. Mankind could be put in the garden THEN. In other words. HE CREATED IT IN AN AGED STATE. Where it APPEARS it took thousand or billions of years or whatever. SO that man could occupy his creation and enjoy it RIGHT THEN.

A day has NEVER been more than a day. We know day 7 was a 24 hour period. Because God established the 7th day. In 6 days God created the heavens and the earth, in the 7th day he rested.

come on man.. Laugh all you want. God makes the wisdom of mankind foolishness..

Here is the problem

Science says this. So we must make God live up to science. So we create this billion years of evolutionary Gap so that God and science agree

Instead of looking at God for who he is.

How long did it take God to create Adam? Do you realise how complex adam is? Yet God did it how fast?

Man created evolution because they could not explain it. Thus it had to have taken billions of years.

Thats all the gap theory is. Once again, trying to tie God into science, because we can not explain it.

It is sad that souls are lost because they reject Christianity. However, it is also sad that souls are lost because they are deceived.

Case in point: most people believe that light travels approximately 300,000 Km/second. What most people don't know is that the value is the two-way speed of light. Light cannot be measured one-way only; doing so is physically impossible. That means the standard belief about the time required for light to travel from distant stars is actually an assumption, not a scientific fact. God could indeed have created the stars on day 4 and have the light arrive from them right away, without violating any of the laws of physics.

Further, I would encourage you to take a critical look at the Big Bang hypothesis, as it violates the laws of physics in several different ways. If you use the standard of "science" to reject the six-day creation, integrity demands that you use the same standard to reject the Big Bang.

Wrong, it is NONSENSICAL to say God has to change the "Laws of Nature" He created in order to "HURRY UP TIME" when God Hmself is not impatient AND God lives in ALL TIME at once, so as soon as he created the Heavens and the earth, Gid lived in the finished creation, just as he lives in the future with us now, because God lives in all time at once. So, your thought process is in error, you try to get around God's Laws of Nature by saying, well God could do this or could do that, but He didn't, because He is not like yu or I, He is not impatient, He is Eternal, he s patient, he lives in al time, He doesn't need to hurry anything up, that's just yu assumption because you think that way, as do men in general.

This further proves my point, you are pegging God as being impatient, He is not, and He already lives in the future. So, His Laws of Nature are HIS, why dos He need to CHANGE YP what He created? Hes not impatient like men, plus He lives in AL, TIME at once. So, your thought process is as of a man, not of God.

Once again, this is a fallible understanding because you are placing God in the way you think. He is eternal, why does an Eternal Being become impatient? That's kind of Oxymornic in nature, right? God created what He did the way He did, He can't help it because you or others can't see this because part of man's nature is impatience, Hes not like us.

Once again, this proves you do not understand God's being in general, in two ways, He is not impatient, and He lives in all time at once, which is who He knows the future. He is God after all. God's Laws of Nature is what He created, now you live in the, but want to DENY THEM because you think God is impatient, which the bible clearly denies, one of His virtues is PATIENCE.

YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS, not God's Holy Word. Darkness was on the face of the DEEP. God's Holy Word jibes with the WMAP and if you wanted to in souls you would understand this and use this which backs up the Holy Bible, instead, you drive those away who think you are just living in a make-believe world becaue it doesn't match the actual events we can see. Most scientists are wrong, as are a lot of Christians on this.

I just proved via the Scriptures you are WRONG. YOWM can mean many things, yet you deny get facts, becaue you can't handle the facts it seems. Its pride, you are wrong and you can't admit it. Who cares whether we are right or wrong, God's TRUTH is all that matters, stop dent=yig facts brother. When you get to heaven you will see Ib was right and you will then know you could have saved others if you had heeded the facts. The Universe is still being FORMED, Stars are still being born and the universe still expanding, that should tell you, use common sense man, that God's Creation was a COMMAND, and that first COMMAND was a part pf His 6 days of creation, so f God rests now from creating, but stars are still forming, common sense wud tell you that this God created the Universe 13.7 billion r so years ago, and that creation is still ongoing, even though God stopped ordering Creation 6000 years ago when He created Mankind. He ow rests but God Holy Voice once uttered continues the commandment to bring forth creation as God intended, via God's design.

God created the Universe over 13.7 billion years and ceased that creation 6000 years ago. FACTS.

Scientists are pretty much all dumb and evil, some Scientists get it. BUT...........

Science is just a journey from the UNKNOWN to the KNOWN. God is thus the UNKWOWN FACTOR, but these Scientists do not 8nderstand that, I do, even you do, but you misunderstand God's word as per His timing of events. So Science is always FACT, Scientists theories are just that, men guessing. But the true science via the Laws of Nature can not be denied. In order to be right, you and others have t change the very Laws of Nature God Himself created.

There is NO GAP, that in your mind. God created the Universe of a 13.7 billion year tie period, he's not impatient like men. He created the Universe via His Laws of Nature, not mine out your but His. The Gap is in your mind, not God's.

Again, you are steered off course because YOU ASSUME God is impatient, so much so He has to CHANGE His Laws of Nature. You assume God doesn't (I guess) live in All-Time at once. Thus you get thrown off course. Why are you so insistent on HURRYING UP God?

I am not speaking about CHANCE EVOLUTION of the Speciesmbut rather Creation of billions of years y God's design.

Again, the GAP is in your mind, not God's.

Here is no gap in my mind

Have you ever investigated the human, Body. Just take the eye for an example. One system

Did God look to the law of physics where he created them in one creative act? They worled as designed from the begining.

Just like the universe did

No; opinions.

Wow. Well, there's clearly no point in trying to have a rational conversation with you.

They are Dumb in that they deny God, not in their field per se, if you used common sense you would have known this way my point, do you think the Pharisees were dumb? No, but God used the Disciples because SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING they were dumb. Any man that goes to hell instead of accepting the free gift of salvation, IMHO, is DUMB.

Yet you use things they find in their stupidly to prove your old earth theory
lol

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the TIMING we were speaking of above my friend. No one is arguing that God didn't design everything, you just insist He did ot in 6 days and I understand God did his design over 13.7 billion years our time. Do you even understand Space-Time is curved? You can actually send a child in space and he could come back 1000s of years later having barely aged. Einstein had to prove his theory of relativity via a test where he proved space-time was curved or warped. He could only do it during an eclipse, go read about it. So, our time is not God's time, why try to subject God to our TIMING?

We all know Gid created everything, but I also know God did it over billions of years our time, that's why the Dinos who all died off provided the oil. The Fourth Day is THE SEASONS, not the sun being created again, it came from the earth and Moon crashing into each other and thus God gave us a satellite to control our seasons at that time.

I hear it all, I hear fat Earthers, and it's all I can do to not laugh them out of the room. One is my brother. Satan is a great liar. I will tell you whose teaching that stuff, its some liberal who doesn't believe it, but he's trying to discredit Christians unto our youth, and the CIA/FBI/NSA are all part of this propaganda machine, they use all this stuff to discredit Christians as ignorant hillbilies.