Resurrection and Death (Physically and Spiritually)

The point is that the title of your thread is Resurrection and Death, but Jesus said, I am the Resurrection and the Life, and true believers will receive abundant life, not hundreds or thousands of years of death or sleep awaiting the resurrection.


I will never see death BroTan, because I have everlasting life...

John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. ~KJV


I will never die BroTan, because I believe in Christ Jesus...

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


Do you believe the words of Jesus BroTan...can you say you will never die?

Well let's see if the prophet Job agree with you....Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment.

Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth.

Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Looks like know resurrection until the second coming of Jesus!

Let's fellowship about it, I think the whole Bible is on one accord. Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth.

Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

Paul says in Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Here is another scripture that is used.

In II Kings 13:20 And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. 21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulcher of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

I have no idea why the Lord allowed this to happen. However, you have to think about a couple of things. (1) The Book states And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven (John 3:13) (2) When Christ was raised several people were raised also, but they all die, and are dust right now. Christ continued to live and set down at the right hand of the Father.

One issue at a time...

Yes, we are in agreement that God does not contradict Himself.
As for these newer passages you just mentioned, we can deal with those next. But first, in order to establish common ground, please answer the question I asked:
What are your thoughts on why Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes?

Do you believe Jesus is God, BroTan, and do you believe Jesus when he says true believers will never die?

Yes Indeed BonnieClaire. I also believe the words of Jesus when he says in John 11: 23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Now is the truth and in those the days the people understood that, but today, people believe when you die you go to heaven.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Now Jesus raise Lazarus up so the people will believe, but Lazarus died again, because everyone who sleep in Jesus will rise at the same time, like Job said. Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

When will this time be, let's go to Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Seeing the son of man in the clouds is a different feeling for those who have been keeping his commandments and statues, and Judgements. We been waiting for this time to come. But this is the time Job is talking about, sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven.

Paul understood this to let's go into 1 Thessalonians 3: 12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: 13 to the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Only the saints, those who died doing the will of the Father will be coming back with Jesus, at this time. So we see the prophet Job is in one accord with the apostles. Read you Bible from Genesis to Revelation!

peace in Jesus name

Jesus said in John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Look at verse 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Notice it said mortify the "Deeds of the body through the spirit.” What does mortify mean? It means “subdue by abstinence.” In other words bring this sinful body under control and walk in the Lord's spirit which is his word. Look at 23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. What do “redemption of are vile bodies” mean? Take a look at this.

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

...so you believe in the Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

I'm not sure what a triune is but the book talks about three in 1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Now these three are broken down in Revelation. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (Revelation 1:1)

Note what the verse says, The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him. The Father gave the revelation to Jesus. Note this, "he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." What happened to the Holy Ghost? He is still there but, he is an holy angel.

Let's go back to I John.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (I John 5:10)

What was the record?

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. (Revelation 1:2)

Well since you can't figure out by reading the bible that Jesus is God Almighty, then I can fully understand why you can't figure out that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. ~KJV

But time is running out BroTan, and you need to find out who Jesus is before it's too late for you.

You have to look at the scripture and fulfillment

“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. ….

While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:28, 34-35‬ ‭

“For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot scripture is a witness of the son
of God and the New Testament is the fulfillment of those prophetic scriptures

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot is not revealed until you see the New Testament it’s only a foretelling and pattern of what was going to come in Christ

Oh ok I think I understand what you saying, like for another example in Proverbs 30: 4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, If thou canst tell?

Let's go and connect Proverbs with John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Also in John 3: 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Did you even take time and read what my response was? It's like if you understood what I post your comment you should totally different.

exactly

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39‬ ‭

“Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:12-13, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:25‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole Bible is about Jesus the word of God


“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16‬ ‭

one of my favorites is God is our shepherd

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3, 5-8, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:14-16, 27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The ot is prophecy and the nt is the fulfillment and revelation of what he had been saying all along from the start. It was hidden and mysterious and Christ Jesus has made himself known in the son

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God came and showed himself to us for that short time he had became like us born of flesh and blood for the purpose that we can now know God when he left into the heavens where he came from he has the same glory as he had before the world was created by his own hand and word

That's right....let's me see if I work with you some more. Exodus 3: 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Let's go to John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Corinthians 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

I'm just happy that Jesus is your Lord, your great God and Savior, and that when you die you will be in his presence, not sleeping throughout the millennia, but praising and serving him forever and ever.

Ciao

Sleeping in the dust of the earth is simply a metaphor for the condition of deceased human bodies in their graves. There are no souls within the soil or six feet under.
And if you want to see the word "Hades" you must go to the Greek New Testament. The equivalent word in the Hebrew Old Testament is Sheol. Had these words been simply transliterated it would have made things very clear.

the Authority on life and death Eternal is the Lord Jesus Christ.

He said no man takes my life, I lAY it down freely and I have the Power to take it back again. John 10:18

Jesus said in John 14:1-2

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


Physical death Jesus conquered because HE lives we shall live also for those who place their faith IN HIM will not see corruption. John 3:16

Jesus conquered the spiritual death of sin which is separation from God. Jesus restored the relationship with the eternal GOd and man He reconciled Us to God and Himself
Col 1:21-23

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight. 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Jesus saved us Spirit , soul and body