Doctrine of Unconditional Election

This is what I asked for:
FreeGrace2 said:
Please quote the exact verse that shows that election is to salvation, from ANY book in the Bible. I won't limit you to just Romans.

But since you claim Romans 9 is about election to salvation, prove it with clear verses, please.

Do you have any verses that clearly state that election is for salvation?

I gave you scripture, I cant make you believe scripture, that's Gods prerogative.

You didn't. But, let's pretend you did and I lost it.

So, could you give it to me again? Thanks.

If you are not willing to give it to me "again" then I and the rest of the thread will know that you really DON'T have such a verse.

I did give you scripture !

FreeGrace2 said:
You didn't. But, let's pretend you did and I lost it.

So, could you give it to me again? Thanks.

If you are not willing to give it to me "again" then I and the rest of the thread will know that you really DON'T have such a verse.

This kind of response proves that you don't really have any Scripture that says election is to salvation. Or you would have GLADLY given it.

Jut saying "I already did" is a cop-out. It shows that your hands are empty.

So, thanks for the heads-up. Now we all know what you don't have.

I'm always amazed when posters respond like this. When I have the truth, I don't care how many times someone asks me for my evidence, I'm very happy to share it.

Just read my posts. Thats what they are for !

OK, thanks. You've just admitted that you don't have any verses.

If you did, you'd be very happy to quote them as many times as requested.

I love nothing more than sharing the truth of Scripture.

But, as you have just shown, you don't have any verses that say what you claim.

Thank you very much.

I just admitted I have plenty of verses you have ignored in many of my previous posts.

Why aren't you reading my posts? I lost the verses. Why won't you just share them again?

Why are you stalling?

If you have them, you would share them again. Without any arm twisting.

But, you are acting like so many others who make claims but don't share verses that they say support their claims. All they do is repeat that they have shared verses.

For example, one poster made a claim and I asked for a verse that says what he claimed. He kept saying he had and shared them. Then he claimed he had shared them many times already. However, all he had done is claim many times that he had shared them. But he never shared any.

So, you are doing what that other poster kept doing. Making claims but showing NO verses that support what you claim.

Again, thanks for the transparency.

That's the difference between us. I am always happy to share truth. You seem happy to avoid sharing your truth yet claiming that you have been sharing truth.

Ive read your posts, claiming I haven't showed scripture for my view ! I have showed scripture. The bible is crystal clear that some men are unconditionally elected or chosen to Salvation before the foundation, not based upon a persons works.

Prove it! Quote the verse that actually says that. That's what I'm trying to get you to do.

Why do you refuse to quote the verse but keep saying you've "showed scripture"?

Every time you do this you prove that you don't have any such verse.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith

Like I said, I have proved it.

I must reiterate that election unconditionally in Christ before the foundation has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity.

Then why do you keep referring to the elect, as being saved according to “unconditional election”?


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

• the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus

Paul’s desire was for the elect to also obtain salvation.


“Also“ being the word that clearly teaches that the elect are “also” in need of salvation.


We can conclude that the elect does not refer to being elected unconditionally for salivation.


We can conclude that there is another group besides “the elect” that is saved and Paul desires to see “the elect” obtain this same salvation which is in Christ Jesus.


We can further conclude that the doctrine of Unconditional Election is not from God.







JPT

I think you bought up a valid point with the word also, however it poses no problem. Paul meant by that, that they also in addition to himself and other elect vessels

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

We as beneficiaries are reconstituted to renewed fellowship into God's family as servants and Sons to the Father by our one act of obedience: Obeying the command of the Father to receive the gospel of the free gift of salvation (by faith through grace) by believing on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.