1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
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Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
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Hello all! I decided to post this because I keep seeing people posting these two events as being the same and taking place at the same time, which they are not.
First of all, in comparing the two scriptures, at the time of the resurrection and the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, angels DO NOT gather those being resurrected, nor the living being changed and caught up. The scripture states that we are raised in power, not gathered by angels. The Lord with a voice like a trumpet, will resurrect and call up the dead in Christ and then immediately after that the living in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air. To reiterate, no angels gather the church at this event.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 mentions that there will be a "load command, with the voice of an archangel" to announce the Lord's appearing, i.e. the Bridegrooms arrival for His bride. The mention of the voice of the loud command from the archangel is in the 'genitive, masculine, singular,' i.e. one archangel. In opposition, Matthew 24:31 has the Lord sending out many angels who will go throughout the four corners of the earth to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. To be clear, Matthew 24:31 is not the gathering of the church, but the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have survived the great tribulation period.
In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect. They are different trumpets. The trumpet of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is to gather the dead and the living in Christ from off the earth. Where the "loud trumpet call" in Matthew 24:31 is to send the angels out to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. What is not mentioned in Matthew 24:31 but is mentioned in Matthew 13, is that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels first gather the weeds/wicked, then they bring the wheat/righteous into the Lord's barn.
And second of all, when we received Christ, we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. As Isaiah 53 says, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Christ, meaning that God's wrath was already satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer. Either Christ's punishment brought us peace with God or it didn't! For those who continue to have the living church gathered after God's wrath, they cannot truly believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath. They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths.
Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to come back to get His church and to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath.
And thirdly, in opposition to Matthew 24:31 which states that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." In opposition, nothing is mentioned of the people of the earth seeing the Lord arriving nor His gathering of the church as described in John 14:1-3, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17. In the event when the Lord comes to gather His church, it is to take them back to the Father's house. Where in opposition, Matthew 24:29-31 is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. So, one is coming to gather His church to take them back to heaven and the other is to return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
I would also mention after the detailed account of the church being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul says "Therefore encourage one another with these words. If the church were to first go through God's wrath and then be gathered, then we could not encourage each other with those words, because we be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. It is the same thing found in John 14:1, for Jesus says "let not your hearts be troubled." If believers within the church were to go through God's wrath and gathered afterwards, then we would certainly have reason to be troubled.
* The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after God's wrath (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 1:7, 19:11-21)
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
=====================================================
Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
==========================================================================================
Hello all! I decided to post this because I keep seeing people posting these two events as being the same and taking place at the same time, which they are not.
First of all, in comparing the two scriptures, at the time of the resurrection and the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, angels DO NOT gather those being resurrected, nor the living being changed and caught up. The scripture states that we are raised in power, not gathered by angels. The Lord with a voice like a trumpet, will resurrect and call up the dead in Christ and then immediately after that the living in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air. To reiterate, no angels gather the church at this event.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 mentions that there will be a "load command, with the voice of an archangel" to announce the Lord's appearing, i.e. the Bridegrooms arrival for His bride. The mention of the voice of the loud command from the archangel is in the 'genitive, masculine, singular,' i.e. one archangel. In opposition, Matthew 24:31 has the Lord sending out many angels who will go throughout the four corners of the earth to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. To be clear, Matthew 24:31 is not the gathering of the church, but the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have survived the great tribulation period.
In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect. They are different trumpets. The trumpet of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is to gather the dead and the living in Christ from off the earth. Where the "loud trumpet call" in Matthew 24:31 is to send the angels out to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. What is not mentioned in Matthew 24:31 but is mentioned in Matthew 13, is that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels first gather the weeds/wicked, then they bring the wheat/righteous into the Lord's barn.
And second of all, when we received Christ, we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. As Isaiah 53 says, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Christ, meaning that God's wrath was already satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer. Either Christ's punishment brought us peace with God or it didn't! For those who continue to have the living church gathered after God's wrath, they cannot truly believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath. They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths.
Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to come back to get His church and to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath.
And thirdly, in opposition to Matthew 24:31 which states that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." In opposition, nothing is mentioned of the people of the earth seeing the Lord arriving nor His gathering of the church as described in John 14:1-3, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17. In the event when the Lord comes to gather His church, it is to take them back to the Father's house. Where in opposition, Matthew 24:29-31 is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. So, one is coming to gather His church to take them back to heaven and the other is to return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
I would also mention after the detailed account of the church being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul says "Therefore encourage one another with these words. If the church were to first go through God's wrath and then be gathered, then we could not encourage each other with those words, because we be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. It is the same thing found in John 14:1, for Jesus says "let not your hearts be troubled." If believers within the church were to go through God's wrath and gathered afterwards, then we would certainly have reason to be troubled.
* The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after God's wrath (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 1:7, 19:11-21)
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