1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

[Ahwatukee]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
=====================================================

Matthew 24:29-31


29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

==========================================================================================

Hello all! I decided to post this because I keep seeing people posting these two events as being the same and taking place at the same time, which they are not.

First of all, in comparing the two scriptures, at the time of the resurrection and the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, angels DO NOT gather those being resurrected, nor the living being changed and caught up. The scripture states that we are raised in power, not gathered by angels. The Lord with a voice like a trumpet, will resurrect and call up the dead in Christ and then immediately after that the living in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air. To reiterate, no angels gather the church at this event.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 mentions that there will be a "load command, with the voice of an archangel" to announce the Lord's appearing, i.e. the Bridegrooms arrival for His bride. The mention of the voice of the loud command from the archangel is in the 'genitive, masculine, singular,' i.e. one archangel. In opposition, Matthew 24:31 has the Lord sending out many angels who will go throughout the four corners of the earth to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. To be clear, Matthew 24:31 is not the gathering of the church, but the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have survived the great tribulation period.

In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect. They are different trumpets. The trumpet of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is to gather the dead and the living in Christ from off the earth. Where the "loud trumpet call" in Matthew 24:31 is to send the angels out to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. What is not mentioned in Matthew 24:31 but is mentioned in Matthew 13, is that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels first gather the weeds/wicked, then they bring the wheat/righteous into the Lord's barn.

And second of all, when we received Christ, we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. As Isaiah 53 says, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Christ, meaning that God's wrath was already satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer. Either Christ's punishment brought us peace with God or it didn't! For those who continue to have the living church gathered after God's wrath, they cannot truly believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath. They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to come back to get His church and to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath.

And thirdly, in opposition to Matthew 24:31 which states that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." In opposition, nothing is mentioned of the people of the earth seeing the Lord arriving nor His gathering of the church as described in John 14:1-3, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17. In the event when the Lord comes to gather His church, it is to take them back to the Father's house. Where in opposition, Matthew 24:29-31 is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. So, one is coming to gather His church to take them back to heaven and the other is to return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

I would also mention after the detailed account of the church being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul says "Therefore encourage one another with these words. If the church were to first go through God's wrath and then be gathered, then we could not encourage each other with those words, because we be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. It is the same thing found in John 14:1, for Jesus says "let not your hearts be troubled." If believers within the church were to go through God's wrath and gathered afterwards, then we would certainly have reason to be troubled.

* The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)

* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after God's wrath (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 1:7, 19:11-21)

 

[Noteworthy]

Spot on!

"We do not go through the tribulation because Jesus is not a wife beater."

 

[Omegatime]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture, no pre-wrath rapture. When you truly understand the Blessed Day of Daniel happening on the 1335th day of the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord then you know most of the story

 

[Ahwatukee]

Spot on!

"We do not go through the tribulation because Jesus is not a wife beater."

Well said! Not only that, but the church would be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. I think that one of the problems is that people don't understand the severity of God's coming wrath. For example, when has the world have seen demonic beings coming up out of the Abyss to torment mankind with the stings like those of a scorpion? And the Lord is going to put His bride through that? And that's just one example.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture, no pre-wrath rapture. When you truly understand the Blessed Day of Daniel happening on the 1335th day of the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord then you know most of the story

Well, if you have no gathering of the church prior to God's wrath, which is that entire seven years, then the only other place you can put the gathering is after God's wrath and after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. This would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

The 1290 and 1335 days mentioned in Daniel, is a total of 75 days beyond the 1260 days referred to in Revelation. There is no scripture that tells us directly what those extra day entail. However, it may be due to pre-millennial business such as the judgment of the sheep and the goats and when the Lord settles disputes between the nations who will be entering into the millennial kingdom. One one thing is for sure, the 1335 day cannot be when the church is gathered, for as previously stated, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God.

 

[Noteworthy]

The problem I have with the rapture of believers is the timeline. Only a pre triib rapture can be a reasonable conclusion, knowing that no one can know the day and hour that Christ will come for His bride, the church. If it happens when AC signs the peace treaty, you would know that Jesus comes back in seven years. If the rapture happens mid trib, you would know He comes 3.5 years after the start. Same with post trib. You would know Jesus returns 7 years after it all started. Only an unexpectd, pre tribulation rapture of believers fits with all the scriptures with no conflict.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The problem I have with the rapture of believers is the timeline. Only a pre triib rapture can be a reasonable conclusion, knowing that no one can know the day and hour that Christ will come for His bride, the church. If it happens when AC signs the peace treaty, you would know that Jesus comes back in seven years. If the rapture happens mid trib, you would know He comes 3.5 years after the start. Same with post trib. You would know Jesus returns 7 years after it all started. Only an unexpected, pre tribulation rapture of believers fits with all the scriptures with no conflict.

Yes, I agree completely. Christ's return to gather the church has always been imminent. I've always said that if I was here during the time of God's wrath I could follow it like a road map. I would know what plague of wrath was coming next. Then after I saw the events of the 7th bowl judgment (if I was still alive) I could say "get ready, the Lord is about to arrive on the clouds to end the age!

For those who believe in a post wrath gathering of the church, the Lord's return cannot be imminent, because all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that would have to take place first. Yet, we have the Lord's example of, "if the man of the house had known at what time the thief was going to break in, he would have stayed away to keep his house from being broken into." In the same way, since we don't know at what time the Lord is going to come to gather His church, then we must always be watching and anticipating His appearing.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Dream on.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Dream on.

Dream on regarding what?

 

[Blain]

I am very interested in digging deeper into this stuff I just have had a feeling that the rapture and the tribulation are dangerously close which lead me to go deeper into these things and discovered quite a lot but even more so than that I had a dream almost a week ago that I was in heaven everything was kind of veiled as if I was looking through a lens that made everything foggy but I do remember seeing everything as if it was see through gold and I had such joy and couldn't believe I was finally home that the rapture actually happened, that feeling was beyond words

Those who say there is no rapture or pretrib rapture can have their opinion but personally I truly believe these things are at our door I am honestly unsure why many others don't feel it it is such an urgent and intense feeling

 

[Ahwatukee]

I am very interested in digging deeper into this stuff I just have had a feeling that the rapture and the tribulation are dangerously close which lead me to go deeper into these things and discovered quite a lot but even more so than that I had a dream almost a week ago that I was in heaven everything was kind of veiled as if I was looking through a lens that made everything foggy but I do remember seeing everything as if it was see through gold and I had such joy and couldn't believe I was finally home that the rapture actually happened, that feeling was beyond words

Those who say there is no rapture or pretrib rapture can have their opinion but personally I truly believe these things are at our door I am honestly unsure why many others don't feel it it is such an urgent and intense feeling

Hello Blain!

The reason, for the most part, is that they have adopted the false teachings of men and labeled it as God's word. We are warned about this time when people would not put up with sound doctrine:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

 

[Noteworthy]

@Blain It is indeed an exciting time to be alive. We are so blessed to have Bibles, books and believers with which to study God’s Word. Best of all, we have Holy Spirit to guide us in all truth.

I personally believe that Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 was a significant fulfillment of prophecy, before the end of the church age. Jesus addressed it in Matthew 24:32-34 in what I call the “fig tree prophecy” since the fig tree is often representative of Israel. I have a paper about that. Would you like me to share it?

 

[Blain]

@Blain It is indeed an exciting time to be alive. We are so blessed to have Bibles, books and believers with which to study God’s Word. Best of all, we have Holy Spirit to guide us in all truth.

I personally believe that Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 was a significant fulfillment of prophecy, before the end of the church age. Jesus addressed it in Matthew 24:32-34 in what I call the “fig tree prophecy” since the fig tree is often representative of Israel. I have a paper about that. Would you like me to share it?

You know since you mentioned Israel starting the countdown in bible prophecy something else I was researching was something called the shemitah it's basically a seven year cycle and the seventh year of that cycle is important because ever since Israel came into it's land something major has happened in history but what is even more amazing is that if you add 70 plus 1952 this being the first shemitah cycle for Israel since coming to their land again you get 2022 but according to the hebrew calander if we were to measure dates by our calander it would be 2022 for them three months before us theirs begins in september not the first of january like us.

I was reminded of Daniels 70th week and if weeks represent the seven year cycle this would be that 70th week for them this september or at least it would be the beginning of that week. for them this setember is called 5782 not 2022 and I have found many things linked to that and even posted my findings in my thread could the tribulation start this year yesterday.

But yes please do show your paper I will try to read it my eyes are severely damaged so I cannot read a whole lot at once very easily but will attempt to

 

[Blain]

Hello Blain!

The reason, for the most part, is that they have adopted the false teachings of men and labeled it as God's word. We are warned about this time when people would not put up with sound doctrine:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

True but God doesn't wait on people to turn to truth for long at least not now in the season we are in. if my research proves to be solid and true then I honestly expect this shemitah year to be a profoundly prophetic one

 

[DavidTree]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
=====================================================

Matthew 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

==========================================================================================

Hello all! I decided to post this because I keep seeing people posting these two events as being the same and taking place at the same time, which they are not.

First of all, in comparing the two scriptures, at the time of the resurrection and the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, angels DO NOT gather those being resurrected, nor the living being changed and caught up. The scripture states that we are raised in power, not gathered by angels. The Lord with a voice like a trumpet, will resurrect and call up the dead in Christ and then immediately after that the living in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air. To reiterate, no angels gather the church at this event.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 mentions that there will be a "load command, with the voice of an archangel" to announce the Lord's appearing, i.e. the Bridegrooms arrival for His bride. The mention of the voice of the loud command from the archangel is in the 'genitive, masculine, singular,' i.e. one archangel. In opposition, Matthew 24:31 has the Lord sending out many angels who will go throughout the four corners of the earth to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. To be clear, Matthew 24:31 is not the gathering of the church, but the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have survived the great tribulation period.

In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect. They are different trumpets. The trumpet of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is to gather the dead and the living in Christ from off the earth. Where the "loud trumpet call" in Matthew 24:31 is to send the angels out to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. What is not mentioned in Matthew 24:31 but is mentioned in Matthew 13, is that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels first gather the weeds/wicked, then they bring the wheat/righteous into the Lord's barn.

And second of all, when we received Christ, we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. As Isaiah 53 says, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Christ, meaning that God's wrath was already satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer. Either Christ's punishment brought us peace with God or it didn't! For those who continue to have the living church gathered after God's wrath, they cannot truly believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath. They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to come back to get His church and to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath.

And thirdly, in opposition to Matthew 24:31 which states that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." In opposition, nothing is mentioned of the people of the earth seeing the Lord arriving nor His gathering of the church as described in John 14:1-3, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17. In the event when the Lord comes to gather His church, it is to take them back to the Father's house. Where in opposition, Matthew 24:29-31 is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. So, one is coming to gather His church to take them back to heaven and the other is to return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

I would also mention after the detailed account of the church being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul says "Therefore encourage one another with these words. If the church were to first go through God's wrath and then be gathered, then we could not encourage each other with those words, because we be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. It is the same thing found in John 14:1, for Jesus says "let not your hearts be troubled." If believers within the church were to go through God's wrath and gathered afterwards, then we would certainly have reason to be troubled.

* The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)

* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after God's wrath (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 1:7, 19:11-21)

$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.
*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.

Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements

Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture

Rules are set forth by the Moderator = the Lord Jesus Christ
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.

ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

 

[Blain]

$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.
*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.

Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements

Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture

Rules are set forth by the Moderator = the Lord Jesus Christ
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.

ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

I'm sorry to break your rules but you and I both know that isn't possible because if it was you would have shown scripture that proves otherwise in fact demanding of people something you have not presented does not really make anyone want to follow your rules. I am sure you are aware how this rodeo works verse will be shown after verse on either sides and no one will let up and why? Because no one has a teachable heart no one has the ability to think to themselves they might actually be wrong

I have studied this topic in different perspectives the post trib mid trib prewrath and pretrib there is scripture to support all sides if you look at it through those lenses. To be honest I find such debates useless as it does nothing for anyone the way I see it what really matters is not who is right or wrong but if a person is able to learn from others if the debate produces no fruits that debate is useless.

Now if say one can disprove the other with scripture it should be a simple thing but it isn't is it? to many interpretations to many unhearing ears to many back and forths but by all means prove the pretrib wrong with scripture follow your own rules before you try to make others do the same

 

[Noteworthy]

$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.
*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.

Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements

Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture

Rules are set forth by the Moderator = the Lord Jesus Christ
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.

ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

Revelation 3:10

“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”

 

[DavidTree]

I'm sorry to break your rules but you and I both know that isn't possible because if it was you would have shown scripture that proves otherwise in fact demanding of people something you have not presented does not really make anyone want to follow your rules. I am sure you are aware how this rodeo works verse will be shown after verse on either sides and no one will let up and why? Because no one has a teachable heart no one has the ability to think to themselves they might actually be wrong

I have studied this topic in different perspectives the post trib mid trib prewrath and pretrib there is scripture to support all sides if you look at it through those lenses. To be honest I find such debates useless as it does nothing for anyone the way I see it what really matters is not who is right or wrong but if a person is able to learn from others if the debate produces no fruits that debate is useless.

Now if say one can disprove the other with scripture it should be a simple thing but it isn't is it? to many interpretations to many unhearing ears to many back and forths but by all means prove the pretrib wrong with scripture follow your own rules before you try to make others do the same

It is possible just as the EXAMPLE PROVED.

i know the Scriptures and the truth - and it is very simple and CLEAR in Scripture
God is not the author of confusion.

Scripture cannot lie

pre-trib breaks the rules set forth by the Word

 

[DavidTree]

Revelation 3:10

“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”

AWESOME Scripture verse - this is TRUE and is found in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4

Please get back to me when you see Revelation 3:10 in 1 Thess ch 4 BOTH speak of the SAME and TRUTH.

KEEP/KEEPING/KEPT are true in Scripture - They are NOT pre-trib rapture

Thank You

 

[Blain]

AWESOME Scripture verse - this is TRUE and is found in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4

Please get back to me when you see Revelation 3:10 in 1 Thess ch 4 BOTH speak of the SAME and TRUTH.

KEEP/KEEPING/KEPT are true in Scripture - They are NOT pre-trib rapture

Thank You

It is possible just as the EXAMPLE PROVED.

i know the Scriptures and the truth - and it is very simple and CLEAR in Scripture
God is not the author of confusion.

Scripture cannot lie

pre-trib breaks the rules set forth by the Word

For a matter of salvation it is very direct so yes that is possible however bible prophecy is the meat of all meats it does not just come out and say it again if it is that easy and simple then please post scripture that clearly eliminates the possibility of a pretrib rapture