Sabbath
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You could say that it's possible, but wasn't one of the roles of the heavenly bodies to control time? Either way, it would be hard for me to believe that to say that none of the law shall go away until heaven and earth disappear, and to have a vision of that exact scenario and terminology in Revelation 21 is just a coincidence.
Colossians 2:14
14 having erased the charges that were brought against us, along with their obligations that were hostile to us. He took those charges away when he nailed them to the cross.
Again, this is speaking about the penalties for sin that the Messiah paid. Not the entire law. Christ came to "fulfill" the law means to "make it complete". Its church tradition that somehow turns that into meaning that the law goes away or changes when he dies.
I think part of the problem is looking at this as two separate books... and what about the apocrypha? Is that the middle testament? The bible is a collection of writings by different authors at different times. And at the time of the Messiah, there was just different scrolls from different authors and no writings from the "new testament". He could have only taught from the law and the prophet scrolls. Even in the "new testament", there is so much of it (including Paul) that is just referencing and elaborating on "old testament" scriptures without people even realizing it.
One of the reasons many Jews today don't accept the Messiah is because they know that it is clear in the OT that God's law is forever and nobody has the authority to change that. So even if it's an incorrect interpretation of scripture, because modern Christianity is the largest representative of the bible... to them it appears the Jesus of the NT does not fit the role of the Messiah.
So there is many OT verses that say the law is forever... Mathew and Luke say its until heaven and earth disappear... I've posted many other verses in the NT that talk about keeping the law and commandments and it effecting our righteousness.
Most of Paul's passages I no longer think are disagreements between him and other authors, but are more so misinterpretations of his writings (Romans, some Galatians, some Collossians, etc.) There is a passage regarding Abraham that appears to contradict James, but I will have to look more into the Greek before drawing a conclusion. The passages are:
James 2:19-26
19 You believe that there is one God. That’s fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear. 20 Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without actions is worthless? 21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete. 23 And so the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” And so he was called God’s friend. 24 You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone. 25 Likewise, Rahab the prostitute was justified through actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them away on a different road, wasn’t she? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without actions is also dead.
Romans 4:1-6
4 What, then, are we to say about Abraham, our human ancestor? 2 For if Abraham was justified by actions, he would have had something to boast about—though not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. 5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessedness of the person whom God regards as righteous apart from actions:
So I will be looking more into those passages, the topic of circumcision, and there are a few other "weird" things about Paul.... Differences in his story regarding his trip to Damascus, his tribe and the term "ravenous wolf", and his relationship with the church of Ephesus. Just some things to look into.
The Sabbath commandment in Exo just says not to work, or have anyone in your home work, and I believe the Messiah later helped clarify the difference between God's work and man's work. I'm not aware of anything that states that this is the only day we are to refrain from work.
I've addressed that verse (and surrounding) verses many times. Verse 16 is actually saying the exact opposite of what modern Christianity teaches. These were believers were trying to keep the sabbaths, new moons, and feast days and the people of Colossae (known for their asceticism) were judging them based on how they did that. There are some slight issues in translation that shows this for verse 16, but some verses a little further down also give it away:
Colossians 2:20-22
20 If you have died with the Messiah to the basic principles of the world, why are you submitting to its decrees as though you still lived in the world? 21 “Don’t handle this! Don’t taste or touch that!” 22 All of these things will be destroyed as they are used, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
In many places in scripture there is a clear distinction between the commandments of men (human commands), and commandments of God. When the word "decrees" is used in scripture it tends to be speaking of man's law. The people of Colossae were judging the believers who were trying to keep God's law... based off of their man made laws. That is the context.
This same pattern you see all throughout scripture. This happened in Mark 7, Romans 14 and here.... People trying to keep the Father's law are being judged based off of man made laws.
Colossians 2:14
14 having erased the charges that were brought against us, along with their obligations that were hostile to us. He took those charges away when he nailed them to the cross.
Again, this is speaking about the penalties for sin that the Messiah paid. Not the entire law. Christ came to "fulfill" the law means to "make it complete". Its church tradition that somehow turns that into meaning that the law goes away or changes when he dies.
I think part of the problem is looking at this as two separate books... and what about the apocrypha? Is that the middle testament? The bible is a collection of writings by different authors at different times. And at the time of the Messiah, there was just different scrolls from different authors and no writings from the "new testament". He could have only taught from the law and the prophet scrolls. Even in the "new testament", there is so much of it (including Paul) that is just referencing and elaborating on "old testament" scriptures without people even realizing it.
One of the reasons many Jews today don't accept the Messiah is because they know that it is clear in the OT that God's law is forever and nobody has the authority to change that. So even if it's an incorrect interpretation of scripture, because modern Christianity is the largest representative of the bible... to them it appears the Jesus of the NT does not fit the role of the Messiah.
So there is many OT verses that say the law is forever... Mathew and Luke say its until heaven and earth disappear... I've posted many other verses in the NT that talk about keeping the law and commandments and it effecting our righteousness.
Most of Paul's passages I no longer think are disagreements between him and other authors, but are more so misinterpretations of his writings (Romans, some Galatians, some Collossians, etc.) There is a passage regarding Abraham that appears to contradict James, but I will have to look more into the Greek before drawing a conclusion. The passages are:
James 2:19-26
19 You believe that there is one God. That’s fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear. 20 Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without actions is worthless? 21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete. 23 And so the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” And so he was called God’s friend. 24 You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone. 25 Likewise, Rahab the prostitute was justified through actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them away on a different road, wasn’t she? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without actions is also dead.
Romans 4:1-6
4 What, then, are we to say about Abraham, our human ancestor? 2 For if Abraham was justified by actions, he would have had something to boast about—though not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. 5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessedness of the person whom God regards as righteous apart from actions:
So I will be looking more into those passages, the topic of circumcision, and there are a few other "weird" things about Paul.... Differences in his story regarding his trip to Damascus, his tribe and the term "ravenous wolf", and his relationship with the church of Ephesus. Just some things to look into.
The Sabbath commandment in Exo just says not to work, or have anyone in your home work, and I believe the Messiah later helped clarify the difference between God's work and man's work. I'm not aware of anything that states that this is the only day we are to refrain from work.
I've addressed that verse (and surrounding) verses many times. Verse 16 is actually saying the exact opposite of what modern Christianity teaches. These were believers were trying to keep the sabbaths, new moons, and feast days and the people of Colossae (known for their asceticism) were judging them based on how they did that. There are some slight issues in translation that shows this for verse 16, but some verses a little further down also give it away:
Colossians 2:20-22
20 If you have died with the Messiah to the basic principles of the world, why are you submitting to its decrees as though you still lived in the world? 21 “Don’t handle this! Don’t taste or touch that!” 22 All of these things will be destroyed as they are used, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
In many places in scripture there is a clear distinction between the commandments of men (human commands), and commandments of God. When the word "decrees" is used in scripture it tends to be speaking of man's law. The people of Colossae were judging the believers who were trying to keep God's law... based off of their man made laws. That is the context.
This same pattern you see all throughout scripture. This happened in Mark 7, Romans 14 and here.... People trying to keep the Father's law are being judged based off of man made laws.
Likely a reference to the OT passage about gentiles keeping laws without being aware of it "a law unto itself".
You have it backwards though. When you find Christ, you will see that the laws were fulfilled. The promise of the law is found through Christ. None come to the Father except by Him.
Romans 14 remains a topic of discussion and interpretation.
That is not an objective and scholarly approach. That is not a Christian approach either.
Laws can refer to scriptural elements beyond just "rules".
"Throughout the generations forever" Yes, but not all of Israel are Israel. Not all self-called Jews are Jews. The covenants do not apply as you think they might.
You still haven't differentiated between what you feel is an instruction from God and what is "man made law".
You have it backwards though. When you find Christ, you will see that the laws were fulfilled. The promise of the law is found through Christ. None come to the Father except by Him.
Romans 14 remains a topic of discussion and interpretation.
That is not an objective and scholarly approach. That is not a Christian approach either.
Laws can refer to scriptural elements beyond just "rules".
"Throughout the generations forever" Yes, but not all of Israel are Israel. Not all self-called Jews are Jews. The covenants do not apply as you think they might.
You still haven't differentiated between what you feel is an instruction from God and what is "man made law".
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Blah blah blah. I got saved in the military. I had no knowledge of the sabbath or the ten commandments. Our enemies at the time were godless atheist communists. They don't quit shooting on the sabbath. I was in the Navy. Every day was pretty much the same, more so when in the actual war zone. So no, I did not keep the sabbath and I sure worked on the sabbath. I'm glad. What I did was vital to the safety and security of the ship. Every crew member was just as important. There are no passengers on a warship.
You deny the whole of the New Testament by your false claim. The book of Galatians refutes your argument along with Colossians. Also,
John 6:28-30
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
I don't suppose that it makes any difference to you what God's word says. You'll get to discuss your heresy with God personally one day. Good luck with that. Maybe you will find out what Romans 3:20 means, or Galatians 3:2. Or you might want to find out before you get there. Your attitude makes a mockery of the cross. God is not pleased with that.
You deny the whole of the New Testament by your false claim. The book of Galatians refutes your argument along with Colossians. Also,
John 6:28-30
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
I don't suppose that it makes any difference to you what God's word says. You'll get to discuss your heresy with God personally one day. Good luck with that. Maybe you will find out what Romans 3:20 means, or Galatians 3:2. Or you might want to find out before you get there. Your attitude makes a mockery of the cross. God is not pleased with that.
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There is no other day spoke of like the Sabbath. From creation to the new Kingdom.
AMP Mark 2:27 And Jesus said to them, The Sabbath was made on account and for the sake of man, not man for the Sabbath;
God knew even before sin that we would need rest so "for the sake of man" He created the Sabbath.
When sin came in to this world the ground was cursed.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
God knew our needs before we did. the ground was cursed. God had put Adam a Eve in the Garden full of food and things to eat but after sin man would soon have to start working for his food. So God gave the Sabbath so that man could rest.
Not only was it time to rest but to remember also. Remember a time before sin. But it also gives us something to look forward to as well. A time after sin in the new haven and earth.
It is also time that can be devoted to God fully to worship with out worry of work.
AMP Mark 2:27 And Jesus said to them, The Sabbath was made on account and for the sake of man, not man for the Sabbath;
God knew even before sin that we would need rest so "for the sake of man" He created the Sabbath.
When sin came in to this world the ground was cursed.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
God knew our needs before we did. the ground was cursed. God had put Adam a Eve in the Garden full of food and things to eat but after sin man would soon have to start working for his food. So God gave the Sabbath so that man could rest.
Not only was it time to rest but to remember also. Remember a time before sin. But it also gives us something to look forward to as well. A time after sin in the new haven and earth.
It is also time that can be devoted to God fully to worship with out worry of work.
"Christ has redeemed us from the CURST OF THE LAW"
"The LAW is the power of SIN".
"you (the born again), are not under the Law, but under Grace"
"the letter (law) killeth, but the Spirit maketh alive"
"the ministry of condemnation, (10 commandments)".
"the law revived and i died"..... (apostle Paul).
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh (under the law), but after the Spirit.( under Grace).
"The LAW is the power of SIN".
"you (the born again), are not under the Law, but under Grace"
"the letter (law) killeth, but the Spirit maketh alive"
"the ministry of condemnation, (10 commandments)".
"the law revived and i died"..... (apostle Paul).
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh (under the law), but after the Spirit.( under Grace).
i just noticed what you said here: "Your attitude makes a mockery of the cross. God is not pleased with that"
This is my story - after you carefully read, get back to me.
Born into religion yet lost in sin
Needing a Savior was told would Win
God was calling while life was so fun
His Love so drawing i began to run
Not away to go further astray
But gathering me near i lost all fear
Tears of Joy ran down my face
Now i was in Him and winning the Race
A stumble hear a stumble there
His Love did not falter it remains here
Now i am old longing for Home
Waiting for His Return coming to the Dome
Do not delay Time is running out
Give God the Glory Before the Angels Shout
This is my story - David in NJ
This is my story - after you carefully read, get back to me.
Born into religion yet lost in sin
Needing a Savior was told would Win
God was calling while life was so fun
His Love so drawing i began to run
Not away to go further astray
But gathering me near i lost all fear
Tears of Joy ran down my face
Now i was in Him and winning the Race
A stumble hear a stumble there
His Love did not falter it remains here
Now i am old longing for Home
Waiting for His Return coming to the Dome
Do not delay Time is running out
Give God the Glory Before the Angels Shout
This is my story - David in NJ
E
you still do not get it
The law requires perfection As james said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point we are guilty
so to tell someone to try to keep the law is ridiculous. Why tell them to keep something THEY CAN NOT KEEP?
Paul told you the purpose of the law. To bring us to the knowledge of sin. It was not made for those who are righteous (believers) but for the sinner, Who has yet to find christ.
in telling people to try to keep the law. You are watering down the law. Your trying to make it attainable when the only person who is good, in jesus own words, is God
Take your focus f self and place it on christ like the rest of us. And then, and ONLY THEN, will you find the freedom Christ came to give
The law requires perfection As james said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point we are guilty
so to tell someone to try to keep the law is ridiculous. Why tell them to keep something THEY CAN NOT KEEP?
Paul told you the purpose of the law. To bring us to the knowledge of sin. It was not made for those who are righteous (believers) but for the sinner, Who has yet to find christ.
in telling people to try to keep the law. You are watering down the law. Your trying to make it attainable when the only person who is good, in jesus own words, is God
Take your focus f self and place it on christ like the rest of us. And then, and ONLY THEN, will you find the freedom Christ came to give
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Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, he condemned sin by being incarnate, 4 so that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled (made complete) in us, who do not live according to human nature but according to the Spirit.
This passage is not talking about the curse of the law (penalty for sin), it is talking about the requirement of living according to the spirit and not based off of the physical. What does this mean? The physical action alone does not complete the law we are trying to follow... its not just about WHAT we do, its WHY we are doing it. If we are doing the law just to gain something in return, we aren't completing the spiritual component of the law. To complete the spirtual component the law, it would need to be done out of love for God or love for our neighbor..... not love for self.
The words that you added to Romans 3:4 (under the law, and under grace) is not what walking after the flesh and after the spirit means.