Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

ewq1938 · Aug 18, 2021

And it will destroy the wicked as scripture teaches us:

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

There is only one kind of eternal life, and that is with God as overcomers judged to life. Those judged to death on judgment day, which is called the second death, will not have eternal life in hell or torment. Their punishment is death and that punishment will last for all eternity. They shall not live eternally in agony because they shall not have eternal life of any kind.

Look at how many scriptures refute the idea of eternal life in hell fire:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Judgment is a decision to reward or punish someone. The judgement/punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 21:8), and that judgement/punishment is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2). So, eternal punishment is an eternal death.

Two things happen to the wicked. First they will die the second death which means soul and body dies and then their soul and body shall be destroyed.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here we have death of the soul likened to destruction of the soul. One cannot be destroyed without dying so the two go hand in hand. While the Greek word here can mean several things, we know from other scriptures esp. the OT which has only one meaning for "destruction" being literal destruction.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Duckybill said:

A figure speech because the devil will be destroyed rather than live forever:

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.

Duckybill · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

And it will destroy the wicked as scripture teaches us:

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

There is only one kind of eternal life, and that is with God as overcomers judged to life. Those judged to death on judgment day, which is called the second death, will not have eternal life in hell or torment. Their punishment is death and that punishment will last for all eternity. They shall not live eternally in agony because they shall not have eternal life of any kind.

Look at how many scriptures refute the idea of eternal life in hell fire:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Judgment is a decision to reward or punish someone. The judgement/punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 21:8), and that judgement/punishment is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2). So, eternal punishment is an eternal death.

Two things happen to the wicked. First they will die the second death which means soul and body dies and then their soul and body shall be destroyed.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here we have death of the soul likened to destruction of the soul. One cannot be destroyed without dying so the two go hand in hand. While the Greek word here can mean several things, we know from other scriptures esp. the OT which has only one meaning for "destruction" being literal destruction.

Nearly all you posted is OT. OT does not overrule NT. Why do you take "destruction" as literal but not "they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"? Jesus actually put it together perfectly!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Duckybill · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Hell will be filled with those who will wish you were right, destroyed! Imagine standing before Jesus / God on Judgment Day facing those who burn in Hell forever and ever because you told them it can't happen. You do believe that Jesus is God, right?

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Duckybill said:

Because the bible says the devil will be destroyed not live forever as you claim plus is no "they" in the verse you keep quoting.

Nothing there that supports eternal torture. Jesus was clear here as well:

John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE

Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Duckybill said:

Ever read my sigature which is on EVERY post I make?? You read my posts as well as you read the bible.

Do YOU believe Jesus is God?

CS1 · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

you are dishonest in your post. you posted

"the forever and ever regarding the devil is a figure of speech and not literal."

You just denied it in your word above what you said in post #768. I am done with this topic.

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 19, 2021

And, Furthermore, no one can explain how the "dead are judged according to their works." How can they have differing DEGREES of ETERNAL punishment if
they are annihilated? Just as the Opposite has differing DEGREES of rewards
in ETERNAL Life! Correct?

Hakawaka · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

And it will destroy the wicked as scripture teaches us:

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

There is only one kind of eternal life, and that is with God as overcomers judged to life. Those judged to death on judgment day, which is called the second death, will not have eternal life in hell or torment. Their punishment is death and that punishment will last for all eternity. They shall not live eternally in agony because they shall not have eternal life of any kind.

Look at how many scriptures refute the idea of eternal life in hell fire:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Judgment is a decision to reward or punish someone. The judgement/punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 21:8), and that judgement/punishment is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2). So, eternal punishment is an eternal death.

Two things happen to the wicked. First they will die the second death which means soul and body dies and then their soul and body shall be destroyed.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here we have death of the soul likened to destruction of the soul. One cannot be destroyed without dying so the two go hand in hand. While the Greek word here can mean several things, we know from other scriptures esp. the OT which has only one meaning for "destruction" being literal destruction.

Here we go again doing what I already said they always do.

Quoting a bunch of verses about wicked he will destroy and wicked be no more.
Yes, God will uproot the wicked from the earth, BUT THATS NOT ALL.

Second again doing the same thing I already pointed out, assuming the word APOLLUMI means to cease existing. That is not what destroy means. Its like a apollumi water bottle, ruined water bottle, perished, destroyed, yet it exists. Apollumi (lost) sheep of Israel, who were still alive physically speaking, just dead spiritually.

This annihilationist thing is a very western way of reading the Bible for sure. Reminds me of the unitarians. (And for a good reason as unitarians are almost always annihilationists, JWs, christadelphians. Yeah im playing the guilt by association game, its fun)

Magenta · Aug 19, 2021

CS1 said:

ewq1938 said:

Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell? - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums <= post #768

I am not seeing any contradiction

Ahwatukee · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

It is because you are taking the translated word "Destruction" and interpreting it to mean cessation of existence (annihilation), instead of applying the meaning of the original Greek. This is a complete lack of exegesis on your part. Right in the definition of those Greek words, it plainly states that they do not imply nonexistence (annihilation), but you continue to ignore this and give no reason for it. Here is another example, read the definition of the word and apply it:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it."

======================================================
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).

684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
=================================================================

The Greek word apoleia is translated as "Destruction." Notice in the definition highlighted in red, that the world translated as "Destruction" does not imply "annihilation." Are you concerned about the truth of God's word, or are you leaning to your own understanding? After reading the above definition, you should never again claim apoleia/destruction as meaning annihilation. If you do, it will be apparent that you are just ignoring the truth and are not really concerned about God's word.

Life and death are both states of never ending existence, based on an individuals state of being with God.

Hakawaka · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Here we go again, destroy and never exist.

WHere does it say the devil will never exist..... The devill will be TORMENTED forever and ever.

Magenta · Aug 19, 2021

What is also bothersome is the fact that many do not accept that man is
not born with an immortal soul, and Scripture does very plainly say that:

New International Version
who (referring to God) alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom
no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

New Living Translation
He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him.
No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

English Standard Version
who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no
one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

Berean Study Bible
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen
Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Berean Literal Bible
alone having immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of
men has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

King James Bible
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

New King James Version
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no
man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

New American Standard Bible
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom
no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

NASB 1995
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom
no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

NASB 1977
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom
no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Amplified Bible
He alone possesses immortality [absolute exemption from death] and lives in unapproachable light,
whom no man has ever seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal power and dominion! Amen.

Christian Standard Bible
who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom
no one has seen or can see, to him be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no
one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

American Standard Version
who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no
man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who only hath immortality, and inhabiteth light inaccessible, whom no man
hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and empire everlasting. Amen.

English Revised Version
who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no
man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power eternal. Amen.

Good News Translation
He alone is immortal; he lives in the light that no one can approach. No one has
ever seen him; no one can ever see him. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He is the only one who cannot die. He lives in light that no one can come near. No one
has seen him, nor can they see him. Honor and power belong to him forever! Amen.

International Standard Version
He alone has endless life and lives in inaccessible light. No one has ever seen
him, nor can anyone see him. Honor and eternal power belong to him! Amen.

Literal Standard Version
having immortality alone, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of
men saw, nor is able to see, to whom [is] honor and perpetual might! Amen.

NET Bible
He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no
human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen.

New Heart English Bible
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no
human has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Weymouth New Testament
who alone possesses immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, and
whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be eternal honour and power! Amen.

World English Bible
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no
man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Young's Literal Translation
who only is having immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one
of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age-during! Amen.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

CS1 said:

You are misreading what I posted. I am NOT dishonest!

CS1 · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

did you post what I have provided yes or no?

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Hakawaka said:

The word also can mean literal destruction ie: annihilation. fire is involved, the object burned will be literally destroyed. The whole "water bottle" analogy is meaningless in proper context huh?

All logical fallacies are "fun" for the person using them. It makes them automatically wrong as well. Very typical behavior from that side of this topic.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Magenta said:

Thank you. Of course there was never one yet I am outright accused of being dishonest. Sheesh! In their eyes we are dishonest and not even true Christians. Fun right? Doesn't even matter that the bible supports what we believe in and is the only reason we believe it in the first place.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

Hakawaka said:

I've posted this many times already so you are clearly not reading my posts.

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.

ewq1938 · Aug 19, 2021

CS1 said:

No. I have never one time said hell is figurative or not literal nor that it is not eternal. I said the devil being tortured in hell forever was symbolic yet you claimed I said hell was symbolic. The devil is not immortal. He cannot survive being in hell fire. He will at some point be burned up and not one atom of his being will exist.

CS1 · Aug 19, 2021

ewq1938 said:

SMH

IN the context of the topic of hell You said :

"the forever and ever regarding the devil is a figure of speech and not literal."

The words here you said only pertain to the devil as figurative? Even though the place the verse is speaking about is hell?

We have a devil that is "a figure of speech and not literal."

smh

Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

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