Do we have the right to judge?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenAvraham

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2015
901
281
63
#1
PARASHAH: “Shoftim” (judges)

DEUT: 16:18: -21:9………

This parashah starts off with; “Judges (shoftim) and officers shalt thou make thee at thy gates, which YHVH thy Elohim giveth thee…. they shall judge the people with “righteous judgment…” Many people when they think of the word “judge” think of the elderly man or woman with the black robe in the courtroom who points a finger and dishes out a prison sentence, a sentence that condemns a criminal who is standing before said, judge.

While it is true that the word “judge” can mean to issue or decide a sentence that could condemn, in Hebrew, it also means one who “knows, teaches, and decides issues related to the Torah”. A “shofet” was someone like a Torah teacher, but the job not only included making plain the teachings of Adonai through His Torah, but the “shofet” also rendered decisions based on God’s Holy Writ.

Today, there are “shoftim” in every Bible-based church, synagogue, congregation, Torah study group, etc., perhaps we do not call them “shoftim” or “judges” we just call them “rabbis, pastors, Torah teachers, Sunday school teachers. They (should) expound and make plain the scriptures to those who are listening, and if needed, take necessary decisions based on God’s Word, concerning matters such as finances, church/synagogue discipline, or any decision based on our Judeo-Christian faith and ethics.
Some call them “gatekeepers” the “gatekeepers” keep in sound doctrine, and “do not let in” false teaching, or, have to “expose” false teaching that perhaps has been circulating. “making a righteous judgment” is making “correct or decisions which are “right” according to God’s Word.

The Word of God and the Torah is for ALL PEOPLE, and for this reason, the Torah says; “thou shalt not respect persons…” meaning that “one should not single out a person because that person is either rich, poor, famous, in politics, etc.… in order to say, “well, because it is YOU, my friend, I will make an exception to the Torah rule” Elohim says NO!, we are ALL EQUAL, we are ALL SINNERS are deserve righteous judgment, and what applies to the rich man, applies to the poor man as well.

(16:20) “Tzedek, Tzedek tirdof” (Righteousness, Righteousness pursue!) Why does the Torah say “righteousness twice? There are two points of view from the rabbis.

One is that one must pursue (run after) righteousness as long as the end result is also righteous. An example is, from the Talmud, a story about an olive grower. The Owner owns many acres of olive trees and he makes a lot of olive oil and fills many urns with the oil and sells each urn for 100 shekels. A servant of the owner is carrying an urn to the storehouse and he slips and falls, dropping and breaking the urn. As a result, the oil is lost. The owner’s son drags the servant to the judge at the city gate, and the judge judges according to the “eye for an eye” judgment.

He renders a “right” judgment, that, the servant will have to pay 100 shekels for the lost oil. The son is also in agreement. He will dock the servant's pay for that month, which is also 100 shekels. The servant cries out to the owner and explains the situation.

The owner who is kind and merciful calls his son “My son, you had the right to bring the servant to judgment, and the judgment is just and right according to the Torah…HOWEVER… the end result will be very unfair and unrighteous, the servant’s family will suffer loss and will not be able to buy food for the month….so…we, on the other hand, can afford the loss, while the servant cannot. I will render this judgment, that the servant’s mishap is forgiven, and no wage kept back!” Thus, “righteousness, righteousness we will pursue!”

The other understanding of this verse is that there are two kinds of “righteousness” “Righteous faith” and “Righteous works” both we must pursue! We pursue “righteous faith” through prayer and our personal relationship with Yeshua HaMashiach, reading/studying the Torah, and occupy ourselves as well with “righteous mitzvoth” through our obedience and following the commandments.

The Scripture says that “we are saved (righteous faith) unto good works (righteous works). But we must always remember that “righteous works never lead to righteous salvation, rather it is the other way, “righteous salvation leads us to do works of righteousness”
Also, the three Hebrew letters “Tzadik, Dalet, and Qof” could also mean “The Righteous ONE” and there is only “One righteous one” whom we must follow, that is Yeshua HaMashiach, not only in this present world, but in the world to come as well.

Chapter 17 deals with offering sacrificial animals with blemishes. Since today, we don’t sacrifice animals, how can we relate to this verse? The animals were “offered up” to Adonai, we “offer up” to YHVH our praises, prayers, and our service in form of our spiritual gifts, may our prayers be “without blemish” (without distraction, wholehearted, and sincere) not just repeating words that are printed in a prayer book, but “understanding” the words in the prayer book, or better yet, your own words from the heart. May we offer up our spiritual gift with a whole heart to the best of our ability.

(17:14) talks about “setting a king over thee” It was not Adonai’s perfect will that Israel would have kings, as He already knew what the outcome would be. You could probably count on one hand the righteous kings of Israel; David, Josiah, Hezekiah, the rest were perverted and evil (perhaps there were a few more). Manasseh corrected his ways towards the end of his life. God instructs every king to make a copy of the Torah and to study the Torah (17:18). If every president of every nation did that, every nation would be at peace, one with the other, we would not have anti-immigrant laws, racism, etc. We must pray that our president, men, and women in authority govern according to the commandments of the Torah, in accordance to what the Bible teaches.

Chapter 18. The priests and Levites are supported by the people, they get food, (meat, and produce from the field) and skins from the animals that are sacrificed. This was God’s provision for his ministers. Should it be any different today? I would say not! Those who live to teach God’s Word should be maintained by God’s people. Unfortunately, in many countries, some pastors, rabbis, etc. live lives in poverty because the people of their congregation don’t give, yet, some probably do live well, IF they teach their people to give, then, they will, because they love God’s teaching servants and want the best for them and their families. Some ministers have to work secular jobs in order to survive, this affects their ministry because their time is limited.

(18:9) “When you come unto the land which YHVH gives you…you will NOT… and the Torah mentions the abominations that the pagan peoples do. When we move to go to a new town, city, or even to a different job, we will notice the habits, and customs of the people of those new towns, cities, or job sites. Perhaps some of their ways will not be in accordance to what the WORD of God teaches; Cheating on spouses, cheating at work, gossip, (Leshon Hara) dirty jokes, lying to the boss, ill-treatment of others, the list could go on, will we separate ourselves from them? Or…in order to be accepted and not ridiculed, will we “compromise” our standards? Yet the Torah says; “thou shall not learn to do after the abominations of those nations!” (or job sites, neighborhoods, cities, towns, etc.)
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#2
There are two kinds of judgement.
There's legal judgement where a Judge decides the outcome of a legal dispute,
and there's personal judgement, where individual people judge individual situations.
A lot of people can't seem to discern between the two.
I judge them to be either stupid or intellectually dishonest.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#3
There are two kinds of judgement.
There's legal judgement where a Judge decides the outcome of a legal dispute,
and there's personal judgement, where individual people judge individual situations.
A lot of people can't seem to discern between the two.
I judge them to be either stupid or intellectually dishonest.
So if you are stating that you are judging, does that mean you feel that it is OK to judge?

Christ said in John 7:24 : “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” A right judgment would be a judgment by the word of the Lord. We cannot even judge many of the actions and words of others because we do not know their heart that motivated their acts as the Lord knows everyone's heart.

In the sermon on the mount, when Christ was explaining the law as written in our hearts instead of the law in stone, Christ explained murder as not only something physical but what often results from judging people. Christ said not even to think of them as "you fool" as it expresses murder in the heart.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#4
We are commanded tojudge for ourself what is right and good. Doing this in the sight of Godmakes us righteous in His eyess.

Judging to condemnation is not included in this teaching or command. It is not a difficult distinction for any to make in judgeing, never the souls of others, always for ourself what is good an d right.
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#5
So if you are stating that you are judging, does that mean you feel that it is OK to judge?

Christ said in John 7:24 : “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” A right judgment would be a judgment by the word of the Lord. We cannot even judge many of the actions and words of others because we do not know their heart that motivated their acts as the Lord knows everyone's heart.

In the sermon on the mount, when Christ was explaining the law as written in our hearts instead of the law in stone, Christ explained murder as not only something physical but what often results from judging people. Christ said not even to think of them as "you fool" as it expresses murder in the heart.
John 7:24 is an example of a legal dispute,
so I guess I'll add to my original comment,
".......or too lazy to read back a few verses."

Concerning Matthew 5:20-26, which
is what I'll assume you're referring to,
anger is the root cause of murder,
not judgement (see Cain and Abel).
Judgement is the result of the anger/murder, not the cause.
Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#6
Once more, we are commanded by the Word to judge for ourselves what is righ.. pivotal word here oursellves. This means we are not condemning anyone rather judging for ourselves we find someth either oi, or , not ok. Then we practice what we have judged for ourselves without burdening others, nor judging any to condemnation.

It seems the writing is quite easily understood, and also it is easily understood when any condemn. Big difference in typs of judging, wellundersstood in the present6ation of th elesson
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,103
1,797
113
#7
We Can judge but our judgement would Not be accepted by GOD because all have come short of the glory of GOD ,our judgement would have to be perfect and Its not, so then, just like I might look down on someone that Is more sinful than me,GOD will look down on the little itty bitty sin I have Too.

So then people that want to judge someone else Is really saying your sin Is bigger than my sin.

Nevertheless we both will miss the mark when It comes to GODs standard.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#8
So if you are stating that you are judging, does that mean you feel that it is OK to judge?

Christ said in John 7:24 : “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” A right judgment would be a judgment by the word of the Lord. We cannot even judge many of the actions and words of others because we do not know their heart that motivated their acts as the Lord knows everyone's heart.

In the sermon on the mount, when Christ was explaining the law as written in our hearts instead of the law in stone, Christ explained murder as not only something physical but what often results from judging people. Christ said not even to think of them as "you fool" as it expresses murder in the heart.
We are not to judge, but we are to discern and test spirits.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9
John 7:24 is an example of a legal dispute,
so I guess I'll add to my original comment,
".......or too lazy to read back a few verses."

Concerning Matthew 5:20-26, which
is what I'll assume you're referring to,
anger is the root cause of murder,
not judgement (see Cain and Abel).
Judgement is the result of the anger/murder, not the cause.
Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking.
You read the same words of scripture as I do, but how you think of Gods words is almost opposite to how i read God's words. God is spirit, God is eternal, God is only good, God is absolute truth. We can only hear what God tells us when we understand the God who is speaking. The law in the word is given by God who has these attributes, if you see God as sitting behind a huge desk in a courtroom, you are not hearing what God is telling you about law.

You read Matt. 5:29-26 and conclude anger is the root of murder. Those passages explaining murder in the new covenant does not once mention anger, you have inserted that word.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#10
The judgement of which I speak is the one that if we do not practice, we are hypocrites in our Father's eyes.

We are to judge for ourselves *for ourselves) what is right, and practice what we say to ourselves is right in the sight of our Father.

This can condemn noo one. This does not say we are to condemn anyone for any reason, just judge for ourselves.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#11
We are not to judge, but we are to discern and test spirits.
Are we not to judge those within the household of God? Those outside the body of Christ, God judges. If you're part of the body and a drunkard, I'm making the judgment not to keep company with you. Yes? Certainly, judgment start within ourselves.

1 Corinthians 5
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#12
You read Matt. 5:29-26 and conclude anger is the root of murder. Those passages explaining murder in the new covenant does not once mention anger, you have inserted that word.
I've inserted nothing.
We're apparently not reading the same book.

Matthew 5:22
“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his
brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall
be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say,
Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

And now I'm judging you to be a waste of my time.
Goodbye.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,663
6,853
113
#13
Yes. Certain things. Many Scriptures to support this. You can do a "search" for Scriptures concerning judgement KJV to see them all.
 
Aug 4, 2021
586
185
43
#14
Personal judgement in matters that relate to you is OK. We are told to not judge others for actions unrelated to us. Because we cannot know the inner workings in the hearts of other peoples conflict, so we should not judge, and end up with mobrule. Such matters are to be cleared up by judges.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#15
Christ said to judge righteous judgment, and that righteous judgment is not by appearances. What does this mean to us?

John 7:24 : “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#16
Are we not to judge those within the household of God? Those outside the body of Christ, God judges. If you're part of the body and a drunkard, I'm making the judgment not to keep company with you. Yes? Certainly, judgment start within ourselves.

1 Corinthians 5
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Sounds like discernment to me. The word judge can mean to pass down a sentence or to discern and other meanings.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#17
It seems the thread has boiled down to disputing about words and meanings forgetting the context of how they are used in order to flash ourindvidual prowess in understanding. Not much like children.

The words being disputed have lost all meaning in the disputing. We must go back to the Word an what it is saying.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#18
It seems the thread has boiled down to disputing about words and meanings forgetting the context of how they are used in order to flash ourindvidual prowess in understanding. Not much like children.

The words being disputed have lost all meaning in the disputing. We must go back to the Word an what it is saying.
Context determines definition in words with more than one meaning. Even in civic justice there is more than one type of judgement.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,103
1,797
113
#19
Human beings can only judge by one or more of their five senses which are see,taste,hear,smell or feel and using these senses they might give a correct judgement like In a courtroom the evidence which Is gained by one or more of the 5 senses will be accepted or rejected and used to make a judgement but It’s possible this judgement might not be right but GOD looks at the heart and the judgement that GOD makes will be true/right.

So then somebody might ask,how do you make a righteous judgement? Only GOD can make a righteous judgement that Is true without a doubt.

Side-note: Some have gotten away with murder In an earthly courtroom but they won’t escape a righteous judgement by GOD.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#20
The Holy Spirit indwells and guides us in judgin for ourselves. This does not make one of us Source Authority, but it is our teacher.