Do we have the right to judge?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
5,908
113
#21
PARASHAH: “Shoftim” (judges)

DEUT: 16:18: -21:9………



The Scripture says that “we are saved (righteous faith) unto good works (righteous works). But we must always remember that “righteous works never lead to righteous salvation, rather it is the other way, “righteous salvation leads us to do works of righteousness”
Also, the three Hebrew letters “Tzadik, Dalet, and Qof” could also mean “The Righteous ONE” and there is only “One righteous one” whom we must follow, that is Yeshua HaMashiach, not only in this present world, but in the world to come as well.

Chapter 17 deals with offering sacrificial animals with blemishes. Since today, we don’t sacrifice animals, how can we relate to this verse? The animals were “offered up” to Adonai, we “offer up” to YHVH our praises, prayers, and our service in form of our spiritual gifts, may our prayers be “without blemish” (without distraction, wholehearted, and sincere) not just repeating words that are printed in a prayer book, but “understanding” the words in the prayer book, or better yet, your own words from the heart. May we offer up our spiritual gift with a whole heart to the best of our ability.

(17:14) talks about “setting a king over thee” It was not Adonai’s perfect will that Israel would have kings, as He already knew what the outcome would be. You could probably count on one hand the righteous kings of Israel; David, Josiah, Hezekiah, the rest were perverted and evil (perhaps there were a few more). Manasseh corrected his ways towards the end of his life. God instructs every king to make a copy of the Torah and to study the Torah (17:18). If every president of every nation did that, every nation would be at peace, one with the other, we would not have anti-immigrant laws, racism, etc. We must pray that our president, men, and women in authority govern according to the commandments of the Torah, in accordance to what the Bible teaches.

Chapter 18. The priests and Levites are supported by the people, they get food, (meat, and produce from the field) and skins from the animals that are sacrificed. This was God’s provision for his ministers. Should it be any different today? I would say not! Those who live to teach God’s Word should be maintained by God’s people. Unfortunately, in many countries, some pastors, rabbis, etc. live lives in poverty because the people of their congregation don’t give, yet, some probably do live well, IF they teach their people to give, then, they will, because they love God’s teaching servants and want the best for them and their families. Some ministers have to work secular jobs in order to survive, this affects their ministry because their time is limited.

(18:9) “When you come unto the land which YHVH gives you…you will NOT… and the Torah mentions the abominations that the pagan peoples do. When we move to go to a new town, city, or even to a different job, we will notice the habits, and customs of the people of those new towns, cities, or job sites. Perhaps some of their ways will not be in accordance to what the WORD of God teaches; Cheating on spouses, cheating at work, gossip, (Leshon Hara) dirty jokes, lying to the boss, ill-treatment of others, the list could go on, will we separate ourselves from them? Or…in order to be accepted and not ridiculed, will we “compromise” our standards? Yet the Torah says; “thou shall not learn to do after the abominations of those nations!” (or job sites, neighborhoods, cities, towns, etc.)
we already have one jidge for all apppinted by God forever

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭

if you are beholden to Moses law then you’ll go about judging everyone but if you are a Christian you will hear and believe Jesus teaching hi is the jidge of everyone

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:37-38‬ ‭

it doesn’t seem
Like a Christian should believe thier others judge but I can see how Moses law taught that

it seems you are beholden to the Torah so it’s going to be hard to hear Jesus word

“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded:

for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why they rejected Jesus and his doctrine , they “ already had the law “ they knew to cast stones at adulterers and Jesus told them to look at thier own sins and all of them who were beholden to the law went away and left her the adulteress with her only righteous judge they were ready to jidge her by Moses word , but God showed up and saved her from it

Moses law blinds us like having a dark veil over our eyes and stopped up ears because it’s contrary

“Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:5-7, 9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not what Moses said that was only until this guy came Moses witness

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬

in order to be born again and saved we have to let go of the ministration of death and grab hold of life in Christ because Moses law is not for saving sinners it’s for condemning them guilty before God

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s all It can do and also to keep the law you have to keep every ordinance or you have broken it all with a single transgression

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you can keep it always and then mess up once now your a transgressor and the law calls for your death. Who can save us ? Jesus can not moses but Jesus can

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but that requires us to come under his judgement and have faith and let go of the old law of sin
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#22
If I have to live God's predestined plan, I have the right to judge the journey and the people he planned for me to encounter along the way.

That's called righteous judgement.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
5,908
113
#23
If I have to live God's predestined plan, I have the right to judge the journey and the people he planned for me to encounter along the way.

That's called righteous judgement.
if you have to live Gods plan , You get to judge others ? And that’s righteous ?

Jesus has some righteous judgement ordained of God to hear about

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:37‬ ‭

hopefully you use that sort of judgement because

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you want to have the true judgement when you go there not having judged and condemned and always having forgiven others because he is the one who’s the judge

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

we all
Have to face Christs judgement that’s why he spoke it and sent it into all nations so we could accept it and be saved through mercy
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#24
we already have one jidge for all apppinted by God forever

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭

if you are beholden to Moses law then you’ll go about judging everyone but if you are a Christian you will hear and believe Jesus teaching hi is the jidge of everyone

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:37-38‬ ‭

it doesn’t seem
Like a Christian should believe thier others judge but I can see how Moses law taught that

it seems you are beholden to the Torah so it’s going to be hard to hear Jesus word

“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded:

for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why they rejected Jesus and his doctrine , they “ already had the law “ they knew to cast stones at adulterers and Jesus told them to look at thier own sins and all of them who were beholden to the law went away and left her the adulteress with her only righteous judge they were ready to jidge her by Moses word , but God showed up and saved her from it

Moses law blinds us like having a dark veil over our eyes and stopped up ears because it’s contrary

“Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:5-7, 9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not what Moses said that was only until this guy came Moses witness

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬

in order to be born again and saved we have to let go of the ministration of death and grab hold of life in Christ because Moses law is not for saving sinners it’s for condemning them guilty before God

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s all It can do and also to keep the law you have to keep every ordinance or you have broken it all with a single transgression

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you can keep it always and then mess up once now your a transgressor and the law calls for your death. Who can save us ? Jesus can not moses but Jesus can

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but that requires us to come under his judgement and have faith and let go of the old law of sin
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" John 7:24
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
5,908
113
#25
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" John 7:24
yes brother you and I are talking about two different things what you are saying is we should use good judgement in our lives and I agree , my position is to have good right jidgement , we need to forst agree with the judges judgement like John the apostle did and taught and took upon himself made Christs judgements the ones he believed were true and right

we need to forst hear and let those righteous judgements into us and let it shape our judgement towards others then we will have righteous judgement and be in agreement with the one and only judge , who gives us good judgement not only good bu godly judgement . Then we realize it’s not about judging others sins or behavior , but expressing Christs judgements to everyone in meekness as followers of those things ourselves it’s quite astounding when one really starts to study Christs words we find that man is truly blind to God before we meet him and we
Need our own judgement restored before anything Because the thkngs we think are good often we find that those things are an abomination to God but not until we hear his word

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we leave this world of flesh out spirit has to go answer for what we have done to Jesus , not moses , but to Jesus we have to answer. So when we go there to answer for our lives lives in the body of this world we are going to be faced with the same gospel he preached forth into the world to save us from that day when men are brought to account

we can hear the judgement now and accept and believe and be brought into life through persevering in it

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s if we hear the gospel and believe we have passed from death into life even though our body hasn’t died , we have passed from this jidgement

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s if we haven’t accepted the gospel and repented and received remission of sins

this means when we die ,we don’t have to wait in the grave or pit formoir deeds because we accepted Christs judgement that tells us of we are merciful we will receive mercy , of we don’t judge and condemn we won’t be judged and condemned , if we forgive others when they sin we will be forgiven …..

Ots not about who has sinned everyone has but now it’s become Christs judgement over the earth mercy and truth have met together and glory is sparked
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#27
Do we have the right to judge?

Judge doctrines, not people.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
5,908
113
#28
Steve Deace did a show today about the seven
most misused/misunderstood verses in the Bible.
Matthew 7:1 was #1.

If you're unfamiliar with Steve Deace, he's a talk radio host,
and since losing my beloved Maha Rushie, Deace is now my favorite.

https://www.audible.com/pd/B09CSJX1...d56-d35a359de6e9&pf_rd_r=MX4Y334D29KKASSWF6EH
why not just learn what’s there ? If you look at the next verse it adds to the understanding

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you know how we can understand that better ? And how it applies ?

look further into scripture especially after learning all Jesus said about it read Paul

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?

for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See if we let scripture create our understanding we can then go even more detailed and learn that judging others can be very subtle

Just preferring a well dressed man with much over a poorly dressed man and preferring one above the other is sin judging each other is a command of Jesus Christ not to do

even matter like this

“My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not misunderstood it’s what the lord God almighty said who we all have to go face ourselves but the thing is I don’t have to give an account for others , I have to account for me like we all do

when we go there before Jesus we want to have this confidence

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

each verse explains the others when it’s all taken in the reason we should believe Jesus is this

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no teachers explaining things away is our jidge but the same one who spoke the gospel forth and said this is the word of salvstion

it’s often not needed for someone to explain what a verse means we simply need to spend time taking it in and the Holy Spirit will make sense of it when it’s time for us to grow
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#29
why not just learn what’s there ?
If you look at the next verse it adds to the understanding
do you know how we can understand that better ? And how it applies ?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.......
Thanks for that condescending and sanctimonious reply!
You're preaching to the choir.
 
Oct 10, 2021
348
165
43
#30
Only God can judge you, other judgements are merely views.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#31
Only God can judge you, other judgements are merely views.
That's right, hun.

Matthew
13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The difference between a flower and a weed is judgement, and in the end only God can rightly judge the hearts of men. We are here to walk and talk and shine the Light, not to judge.