Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

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mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#141
Apr 7, 2014
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#141
Hakawaka said:
What would of happened if Noah had disobeyed? His family would of perished

Obedience is not automatic, that is why the Bible commands us over and over again from cover to cover to obey and warns against disobedience. It wouldnt do so if it was a guarantee.
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If Noah had disobeyed, then he and his family would have drowned in the flood waters, but that was not the case with this man of faith. If we are saved by faith + obedience/works, then how much obedience/works does it take?
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#142
May 23, 2016
4,314
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#142
Hakawaka said:
Obedience is not automatic, that is why the Bible commands us over and over again from cover to cover to obey and warns against disobedience. It wouldnt do so if it was a guarantee.
Click to expand...
Right! Obedience is not "automatic"! Sadly, if it is taught that obedience come naturally and automatically, we usually find real deep discipleship and Christian living woefully absent!

We are saved by grace through faith, and not by works; but that does not mean works are merely optional or automatic.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#143
Feb 6, 2014
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#143
mailmandan said:
If believe was defined as "what we do," then we would be saved by "what we do/works" and not simply by believing in Christ for salvation. The greek word for believe is "pisteuo" and is defined - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4100/kjv/tr/0-1/

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him to save you. Although this belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful -- Matthew 13:23) the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.
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Believe is a verb, belief is noun
Seem to me we save by grace through faith

Not faith alone but grace + faith/believe

John 3:16
Whosoever believe save

But need grace if no grace,

Jesus die on the cross is a grace for all human, but Jesus set up the rule to receive that grace need believe or faith.

So above all, not believe alone must + grace
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#144
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#144
Chester said:
Right! Obedience is not "automatic"! Sadly, if it is taught that obedience come naturally and automatically, we usually find real deep discipleship and Christian living woefully absent!

We are saved by grace through faith, and not by works; but that does not mean works are merely optional or automatic.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if the believer is not properly discipled, they will probably remain a babe in Christ.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#145
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#145
mailmandan said:
By building the ark Noah saved himself and his family from drowning (Hebrews 11:7) yet Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it.
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Even Noah preacher of the righteoness he still need response the grace of information with believe and build an arch

1. God told Noah to build an arch
#1 is a grace
2. Noah build an arch

#2 it is faith or believe in action.

Without 2 element he will die under water
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#146
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#146
Chester said:
Right! Obedience is not "automatic"! Sadly, if it is taught that obedience come naturally and automatically, we usually find real deep discipleship and Christian living woefully absent!

We are saved by grace through faith, and not by works; but that does not mean works are merely optional or automatic.
Click to expand...
Work alone not save us, but grace through faith but most of the time faith create a lot of work
Example Noah, his faith create thousand hours of work to build an arch
Or he die under water

Believe or faith in Jesus mean believe His teaching.
His teaching is to love God and fellow men, it is not easy and to love fellow man may need a lot of work, for example cook food for the hungry, working on the McDonald's Donald for minimum wage and use some money to help the poor etc

If we believe/accept Jesus teaching and field in the next second, yes we go to heaven because we have grace and faith

But if we still life for another 10 years, the faith will bear fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#148
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#148
John146 said:
Agreed, if the believer is not properly discipled, they will probably remain a babe in Christ.
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Probably not even Christian, faith without work is dead
Imagine if Noah faith without work/build an arch, he will die drown under water because his faith is fake.
Noah real faith seen in his thousand hours of hard work.
For normal man faith must translate into good work not an option or his faith is fake
 
JerryInBoston

JerryInBoston

Banned
#149
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
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#149
Jackson123 said:
Work alone not save us, but grace through faith but most of the time faith create a lot of work
Example Noah, his faith create thousand hours of work to build an arch
Or he die under water

Believe or faith in Jesus mean believe His teaching.
His teaching is to love God and fellow men, it is not easy and to love fellow man may need a lot of work, for example cook food for the hungry, working on the McDonald's Donald for minimum wage and use some money to help the poor etc

If we believe/accept Jesus teaching and field in the next second, yes we go to heaven because we have grace and faith

But if we still life for another 10 years, the faith will bear fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Click to expand...
Amen brother.
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#152
Feb 16, 2017
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285
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#152
JerryInBoston said:
Because you are saved.
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Any new Christian is going to try to keep Jesus's commandments.
The only issue with this, is if you believe you will lose your salvation, if you dont keep them.
As when that becomes your faith, then commandments have become your savior.

If a person believes...>>"As long as i keep Jesus commandments i wont lose my salvation"...then this person has no faith in Christ.
 
JerryInBoston

JerryInBoston

Banned
#153
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
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#153
Kidron said:
Any new Christian is going to try to keep Jesus's commandments.
The only issue with this, is if you believe you will lose your salvation, if you dont keep them.
As when that becomes your faith, then commandments have become your savior.

If a person believes...>>"As long as i keep Jesus commandments i wont lose my salvation"...then this person has no faith in Christ.
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No. The person who is truly saved will say: "I love you, Lord, with all my heart, soul, and strength for saving a wretched sinner like me and giving me eternal life, that I will be obedient to all you have commanded, all for your glory alone, and not my own. Amen. "
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#154
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#154
Kidron said:
Any new Christian is going to try to keep Jesus's commandments.
The only issue with this, is if you believe you will lose your salvation, if you dont keep them.
As when that becomes your faith, then commandments have become your savior.

If a person believes...>>"As long as i keep Jesus commandments i wont lose my salvation"...then this person has no faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
Keep His command is Jesus will

John14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

And Jesus not say only for new Christian. For those who love Him

He command all Christian to keep His command till those that not love Him/hate Him don't need keep His command.

So you are unaware hate Him by not keep His command
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#155
Feb 16, 2017
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285
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#155
JerryInBoston said:
No. The person who is truly saved will say: "I love you, Lord, with all my heart, soul, and strength for saving a wretched sinner like me and giving me eternal life, that I will be obedient to all you have commanded, all for your glory alone, and not my own. Amen. "
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God does not accept your lifestyle to save you......and He does not accept your lifestyle to keep you saved.

Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
 
JerryInBoston

JerryInBoston

Banned
#157
Apr 12, 2021
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#157
Kidron said:
God does not accept your lifestyle to save you......and He does not accept your lifestyle to keep you saved.

Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
Click to expand...
What did Jesus command? Jesus commanded us to love God and love others, upon these two hang all the commandments, which I believe Jesus was referring to the letter and spirit of the moral law.
 
JerryInBoston

JerryInBoston

Banned
#158
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
#158
Kidron said:
Everyone should keep Jesus's commandments.
Just dont do this to try to stay saved.
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You keep saying that, but you also know what Jesus said to his disciples: "make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I command." If you are a disciple of Jesus, you are saved. Because you are saved, you are observing Jesus's commands.
 
JerryInBoston

JerryInBoston

Banned
#159
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
#159
Kidron said:
God does not accept your lifestyle to save you......and He does not accept your lifestyle to keep you saved.

Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
Click to expand...
I am saved, therefore I am passed from death to life in Christ who saved me. I am not my own, but now belong to Christ. Because I am His, I follow Him and try to live as He lived. The way I live, I am being conformed to the image of Jesus, which is how all that are His are to be living.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#160
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#160
Kidron said:
God does not accept your lifestyle to save you......and He does not accept your lifestyle to keep you saved.

Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
Click to expand...
I wonder why it is that people against keeping the commandments as we are told to do always say of those who believe we should as being "obsessed". They are speaking on and on about reasons against keeping commandments, do they think they are obsessed or does this only go one way?
 
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