predestination vs freewill

@John you didn answer my qus directly. Bible did say God has chosen some people to be saved, didnt mention all. So my question is, if these chosen ones are going to heaven after accepting Christ, does that mean that their subsequent actions will not alter this outcome of entering heaven? And if that happens, what is the purpose of freewill?

Before we are saved we may make choices but we do not have the power or ability to act upon our choice, we have a will but it is not free but it is in bondage . Paul says we were slaves to sin, in bondage to elemental spirits.

Jesus must set us free before we can act upon any choice we may make towards God and the salvation He offers.

If we are saved Jesus has set us free, not to do our own will but to do of His good will ... before we were saved this was impossible.

I disagree

but I am not getting involved with Calvinism tennis

God begins in the OT and states: CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE

we are not puppets

I am not a puppet Sophie or a Calvinist ... You only get a choice if God gives you a choice it is a hard truth but a truth never-the-less that the Redskins or the Europeans of that generation did not get that choice, only the Jews. Failure to understand or even consider the Apostle Paul's teaching on predestination has led to many sore trials for the church.

It must exercise your mind for here you are.

There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.

There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.

Teaching of pre-destination is a ...great deception...alluring Christians into a sense that they can live the secular live they want and still have a chance for eternal salvation.

If we marry that with the new age religion teaching....everyone will be saved....then their deception will be assured.

Don't fall for that malarkey.

I believe you have the Holy Spirits introduction to a person at the wrong time.. The person Must first Believe and accept Jesus as LORD and Messiah and then the Holy Spirit comes into them ( indwelling) as in the baptism of the Holy Spirit..

The Holy Spirit starts to work upon an individual before this event, ( from the outside if you like) moving them before they actually make the decision to accept the Word of God.. The Holy Spirit causes the lost individual to be convicted by preaching of the Gospel..

That's begging the question .

sigh

I have heard every possible arguement for and against and have books on both subjects and have studied this subject

God doesn't create people just for hell which would be the end result of what you believe

thanks but no thanks...said politely but firmly

Suggest you validate your inclusion of pre-destination. The Bible does not support conclusion as you are associating it with.

If there was/is pre-destination then please explain why Christ had to offer His life on the cross.....for what purpose? Further, why must we abide by God;s commandments...for what purpose? Why must Christ return to pass judgement on the born again.....for what purpose?, etc....many examples.

Pre-destination is widely miss understood from scriptures. Example;...it is pre-determined that one will perish if non compliant with God's commandments. It is pre-determined that one can have faith of receiving eternal salvation...saved...if compliant with God's commandments, etc.

God has given the freedom to choose out his direction as he lives here in this world, but God does not give mankind the freedom to choose his eternal destination. That is given by God's sovereign grace, without the choice of mankind. Because mankind had the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life, mankind choose not to seek God, no, not even one. Psalms 14:2.

This is the reason that God choose an elect people out of those that did not seek him, to adopt as his children, and have Jesus to die for their sins as the adoption price, so that he would have a people that would praise and honor him and live with him in heaven.

I agree that it is widely miss understood, and you are included in those that miss understand it.

Because God gave mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life, they, all of mankind, choose not to seek God. Psalms 14:2. That is the reason that God choose a portion out of those that choose not to seek him, and pre-determined that he would adopt them as his children. God sent his Son to earth to pay that adoption price by his death on the cross for those that he choose.

If you are going to understand the scriptures, you are going to have to include "all of the scriptures" without contradictions, including the scriptures that explain Predestination, and election.

God instructs his adopted children to follow his commandments and chastens them when the do not. There will not be a final judgement day for God's elect, because he judges them as they sojourn here on earth by his chastening.

sigh

I have heard every possible arguement for and against and have books on both subjects and have studied this subject

God doesn't create people just for hell which would be the end result of what you believe

thanks but no thanks...said politely but firmly

I am very glad for this reply. I notice that you take your time before responding so you think carefully.

This gives me the opportunity to refute absolutely the abhorrent doctrine that God created or predestined anybody for hell.

... but just a minute, you have fallen into the same hole Calvin fell into. People slambaste Calvin but then make the same assumption that he made i.e that believing the bible doctrine of predestination necessarily leads to the logical conclusion that since God predestined us He must have by default predestined all others unto damnation.

I have never read Calvin, his face tells me that he was a most unhappy man. But of course I know the doctrine and I re-acted just the same as everybody else ... horror

But this cannot, must not cause us to throw out predestination for it is there along with ELECTION as a major part of bible theology.

I cried to the Lord about it.

My starting point with God is ALWAYS God is Love, all His ways are peace and mercy, always. So how can it be Lord I begged that You could have predestined any to hell?

Now God can't take us on in a particular area if we refuse His word, He will not teach us until we acknowledge His word to be true. Having acknowledged the truth of predestination and election the first thing I saw was that these doctrines do NOT pertain to salvation per se. They pertain to our being part of His body the church ... others can still be saved, in fact THAT'S what we's chosen for, to be a city set upon a hill that men who are lost may find their way.

So predestination and election FAR, FAR from being a barrier to anybody else being saved is the very instrument that God has chosen for the inclusion of the greatest number of people who can be reached and saved.

And people may not even join the church but they can be saved.

I have more to say on this subject.

There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.

slambaste