Hi guys, Messianic Jew here. scripture swap with less hate please.

We are different only in ways that don't matter and in ways that don't need to divide us. the purpose of the post isn't to ferret out differences. those are very very easy to come by. and easy to argue. we'll get to that soon. the point of the post is a 1 on 1 scripture swap, and maybe a little joint pontification, Ha
i'll answer you though. (time to pray for rom14 to work.)

1 Personally and not representative of my religion (since we are split and theres basically some that do and some that don't)
I don't believe in the trinity. i'm sure most people will have seen that coming, and in this case their jaded attitude was absolutely Correct lol.
2 another thing is we have a different relationship with the divine name. when we hear Hallowed Be Thy Name, it just hit's us different. personally His name is the most important thing to me because learning it converted me to christianity from islam
3 Alot of us are culturally Jewish, so we keep traditions alive. most notably we keep the holy days of our Father, and many avoid the holy days of the other gods.
4 our church services are more like shuls than they are churches. and my church home gets there at 10:30, and is gone around 5.
5 most of us in my shul are converts from judaism. we don't have most if any of the built-in presuppositions of the protestant catholic church. we do however have the presuppostions of our own parent faith.

this a long one for me and i feel guilty writing it for fear it won't be answered, but i'm sure Someone will have something to share.
if anyone wants to discuss one of these points with me, it'll be far more effective for you to pick one and address one at a time. otherwise i hope what you share won't get drowned out.

this makes us all gentile

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭

That makes all gentile sinners. Who all need salvation from the only one who can give it. A jew has zero to do with the flesh

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everyone is a gentile to God and the only thing that makes one a child of Abraham is faith in Christ his promises seed. In order for anyone jew or gentile to belong to the Israel of God one has to be born again in Christ

a million Jews by birth can not belong to God but a million Gentiles by birth can be the people of God the only factor that matters is Christ and belief in the gospel

the Jewish flesh people are in the same boat as the gentile flesh folk and each needs Jesus to belong to Gods family

oh yeah, and secondly, Isaiah my life changed at 53'11, 54'2, 54'9, 55'2, and 56'3

to me, the thing that makes us israel is what yahh promised Abraham and David. We are ALL israel, we just happen to be prodigal sons. when we return in time, he'll party. if we don't return in time, we die with pig. that scripture you are quoting means not that we are all gentile, but that though we are all israel, we still don't do the do. so he shows us although that is true, there is something more imperative. You've been quoting your scripture. please quote these scriptures and give me your perspective.
Isaiah56.3 Ephesians 1.5
and keep in mind, the we are in christ for these, and that this isn't mosaic law i'm talking. this is loving Yahh.

Toda rava. I look forward to when we all cross Jordan for the Promised land.
Is it not wonderful that Joshua took the first Israel over to the first exempary Promised land, and now with the same named evolved we have Yeshua taking us to the true Israel with the New Jerusalem as its capital?
If all truly understood that all who praise Yah in spirit and dtruth are th True Praisers of Yah.... Jews.
How ist so many claim to have read and believe th Oold Testament compilation of the Word, yet miss out on so much of its blessing?
If they only knew the significance of what words will translate as when fully translated and not simply transliterated.
Yeshi Yah My Redeemer Yah
Beitlechem House of Bread, how appropriate for the Bread from Heaven to be born there.
Israel, to rul with Elohanu.
Urushalaim which was city of peace to Yahurushalaim, city of Yahweh's peace.
Send me more if you wish. I love knowing the prophecy of the fully translated Hebrew, yes I do. It is a wonderful praise of Yah in HIs Only Begotten Son Baruch atah, baruch Elohanu, amen.

Toda Rabba, achi. I don't think the tanakh is meant for everyone to read you know as in qohelet12'12. (ecclesiastes for other readers)
I won't call all who truly worship jewish though legally we are counted with israel due to adoption. i'll call them israel instead.
and i think people only miss out on the blessings based on what they were called for. in example Iyyov.

Job was a righteous man and Yahh is just, this is before christ by a couple years (lol). This story is taught by the protestant church as sort of pissing contest between the adversary and Yahh. this teaching is bad. because pop warner cannot play in the big leagues, but still gets a good idea of Yahh's sovereignty, so i treat it like reading the NLT.
stop reading here please if you feel like i'm preaching at you, i will now share my perspective. because you said send you more if i wish... and i do.

the Teaching:
Job1'5: this is Iyyov's mission. he prays for his kids for sins they do not know they commit. This is Yahh's calling for him and why he is blessed with a hedge that keeps him righteous, but it doesn't keep him blameless.... dun dun dun
Job4'12 the adversary goes and incites Job's friends to doubt whether Job is culpable. they come to be good friends and sit down with them, but their hearts are good, and there minds are wrong.
Basically all of Job: Job pontificates on how they are wrong about what they say about Yahh, and what they say is wrong about himself.
Job28'28 Direct biblical definitions of wisdom and understanding. the twins Chokmah and Biynah
Job 38'1-2: It's time for Yahh to speak. Iyyov has been "darkening his counsel" that is obscuring his plans. Yahh was offended as Job wasn't made to pontificate. he was made to pray for people who didn't know they needed prayer in secret.
Job 42-7-9: After Iyyov repents, Yahh reveals to Job's friends, that Job spoke right about Yahh, but not that he spoke right concerning themselves. He tells them.... to tell Iyyov to sacrifice and pray for them.
Job 42'10: after job prays for his friends, he gets twice of everything he had, which was Yahh's plan from the beginning of the ordeal.
Iyyov had Darkened his counsel with words without knowledge. that means he knew better.
Bonus: he lost 7 sons and 3 daughters, and gained 7 sons and 3 daughters. everything else doubled. this means the donkey's and such ultimately were not his, and when he reaches heaven, he will have 14 sons and 6 daughters. double everything.
So then: Yahh had called Job for a purpose, but his heart got hard, and he only applied what he was supposed to do his own children. Selfishly. He had already in his heart called this trial on himself. without christ to stand for him, it wasn't enough for him to avoid the do nots. he was judged for not doing the Do's to the standard Yahh had for him. he was burying his talents.
The adversary did not know this and really thought he was doing something. Yahh allowed him to accidentally carry out Yahh's will toward Job. point is Iyyov made covenants and spilled blood from bulls and the such. if you mess up under such covenants, your family can be affected. it isn't enough for us to be right. and with all that we know, we will all lose everything like job as well if we don't cling to christ. the adversary wants to take everything away from us too.
Christ: is the king.

Thank you for sharing your understanding. I used to dislike the Book of Job, but time has drawn me to him for the wisdom he imparted to us, somewhat of a legacy. To be so is above my hope but Yah is working His work in all of us, so come the Kingdom, here we come,a men.

I do believe in the Holy Trinity, but Ajaron, what I believe is incredibly important that we discuss these things with maturity, which is what we are actively doing! As you have wisely pointed out in a few ways, if we cannot listen to each other with the Love of God in our Hearts, there is no hope for Christianity to be spread as it should.

And here is where my True sense of True Christianity shines through . . . which is that though you do not believe in the Holy Trinity, I still see you as my whole and complete equal in this world. I do not say this because you once held to Islam truths, but because I see all humans as my equal. We have all be created by one Father, thus if I were to hold anything other than True Love for all that our Father has created, is to discredit our Powerful God with my ungodly ideas of others. I think that the story that David and Shimei shared together is a wonderful example of this concept.

I respect you as I respect all, but your willingness and desire to communicate openly and without aggression is what we should all be aiming for. You are showing us a healthy and balanced attitude; the Mind of Christ, that we should all be employing.

I believe in you as a good person.

i thank you brother. i think it's more desirable to believe in trinity than not. there are very good and sound arguments on both ends, but one is in consensus and the other by nature of those hearing, divisive.

and you're right. has nothing to do with my previous faith. much easier to believe in trinity than to believe that Yahh allowed a blameless son to die. If i'm here believing in the wage being paid through our Messiah, it's much easier. to believe in a triune god. we even see it in nature through resonance structures.

Being under the control of the adversary is more a description of an unbeliever than of someone who has received Salvation through Christ.

But I see what you mean. And agree that believers make mistakes.

yes amen but there’s what he promised Abram the Hebrew made of flesh and then there’s what he promised Abraham father of many nations

Abram the flesh man the first , was promised that his flesh seed would inherit a nation of their own on this earth.

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:13-15,

this land was given to abrams flesh seed

“And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭13:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is ishmaels inheritance of the single nation with 12 princes the flesh israel.

but then Abraham the father of many nations received a promise not the same

“And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now look what happens when Abraham begins looking to the heavens

“And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:3-5‬ ‭


Abraham had two promises one for his flesh children shown in ishmael and Israel’s flesh fulfilled in Jacob and his offspring and through Moses and his intercession this is to be a jew to come to God by the old covenant through Moses

but another who was born only by promise this covenant is fulfilled in the true seed Christ

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

two Jerusalem’s one where Abram walked other where he was looking up in belief in things not seen but God spoke to him and he believed

when revelation came we saw Abraham’s home was never on this earth as abrams seed inherited

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8-9, 13-14, 16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even Abraham received Christ took communion from the priest but Abram was sort of left behind when he does in the flesh Abraham however lives

Do you accept the New Testament as The Word of God?...

John
14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

you aren't wrong, but in the context of christ saying to peter get behind me satan, i think we can actively do things for the world a whole lot more than we care to share. all sin is from this world. the god of this world is satan according to christ. so when we invariably act worldly as it's in our flesh rom7 shows our flesh is a slave ie under the control of sin. we just avoid being a slave to flesh, but for now, our flesh is just as much a part of us as our spirit. what's your take?

sorry no disrespect, but i didn't read. i'd like to get your perspective on isa56.3 and eph1.5 first before i weigh it against the rest of your words. love ya.

No but yes definitely. we use our words differently because of our religions, but outside of vocabulary, we are in agreement so long as you're basically asking if i find the new covenant canon godbreathed. i agree that the new covenant canon is scripture inspired and translated from Yahh miraculously.

buuuuut No. i wouldn't call any book the Word of God. that's jesus. Jesus is the word, not my bible. for a jew that's literally.
first time the word "Word" appears in the Teaching is Gen15'1. appearing to abram in a vision the Word-of-YHWH hyphenated as proper name takes abram by the hand and shows him how many children he will have. the Word-of -YHWH appears many times and whenever hyphenated like this is always active and with authority. to a jewish reader, saying the Christ is the Word of god, that's huge.
so i wouldn't apply the title word of god to ANYTHING except directly on perfect christ, but yes i agree the canon is Godly scripture.

My favorite is the HBPD since it's public domain. if you like kjv, i think you'll like the Salkins-Ginsburg. but HBPD which is the hebrew bible public domain is swell. the HEBm is the modern israeli hebrew. and then there's the HB. it's different but i like the lord's prayer (disciple's prayer) in it. it rhymes.

Do you believe the following verses are true...

John
14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Do you believe love your neighbor (Palestine)
Do you believe that God is not going to lead Israel to win any war? Maybe you can't even fight China.

also can't even fight and win Rome at past....

the remnant believed the messiah ….

“Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:13-16, 18, 20‬ ‭


no it’s alright I was hoping for conversation about what scripture says not diversion and avoidance . I think a huge issue is one verse theology of you were to read on you would find Moses song was true israel was delivered thier promise and then we’re found out to be just as other sinners ….

“They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

…But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. ( for generations )

They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.



And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.



I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.



I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:



For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:5, 15-17, 19-21, 23-24, 26, 28‬

remember the blessing if they had obeyed and perpetual curses if they defiled the covenant and served other gods ?

Try the song of Moses it seems pretty clear to tell a story of one people and then a promise of another to be chosen later in response to Israel’s rebellion or try this parable of the lord and try not to just read one verse but hear what’s being said it affects what we’re talking about actually explains it but when people don’t bother to read responses it becomes a waste of time

consider the word of Jesus

“Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him. But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.

What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others.

And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:9-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The nation israel rejected Jesus thier messiah and a remnant the early church in scripture was joined together with all nations of whoever would believe the messiah israel rejected and his kingdom offered to all to provoke Israel to jealousy with a different people as God repetitively said

To believe the gospel makes one born of Abraham and an heir there’s no other way Judaism ended when they crucified Jesus