Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

Maby you should read the context from Joel 2:28, too. Who is the Adressat? Jews ore all mankind. When it will be? What is the situation of Israel in this time?

Well even in Joel or Acts, only 3,000 souls were saved that day. We know Israel had millions of people because 40 years later in 70 A.D. the Romans killed over 1 million Jews. But if 3,000 souls were saved on the Day of Pentecost, and to you that represents then, that means God lied because only 3,000 souls were saved out of millions. The mathematics doesn't add up though. Pour out My Spirit on All Souls = 3,000 out of millions.

Fair enough. But what it you're interpretation of Matthew 24:14 is completely wrong. What if so many people have misunderstood.

Christ's prophecy is given in the Olivet discourse on the end times. He's describing the events leading up to His return. Now, what if, rather than the Gospel being preached to all the world by humans, he's talking about Revelation 14:6:

"Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people."

What if Pentecostalism is exporting false doctrine to all those countries and is contributing to the great deception which is prophesied?

Yes, the Lord commanded us to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, but I'm not sure he ever intended us to reach the whole world before He could return.

The problem I have is simple. It is not taught in the bible to other believers.

where says only 3000

We both know from the day we accepted Christ and Believed in him we were SAVED. At that moment we did not know much about God and the Word of God. But after years have passed and reading the Bible, we now know much much more than we did in the beginning. The same goes for your old Church Pastors. After years of Believing and Teaching a certain way, God finally opened their eyes to the Truth. That's why they're slowly converging over to similar Views as Pentecostals. They are Shepherds of God and charged with Teaching their flock the Truth. Thank God they have seen the Light!

What is not preached to other believers? that God wishes that ye did speak in tongues? oh that's Paul, that's right God speaking through Paul. If you don't wanna that's your affair but don't make a case out against it because others press in.

It is not preached/taught in the bible that speakin in tongues is the sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.

It's no good trotting this lame statement out ad nauseum, the fact is they all did and Jesus said they would and Paul said I would that ye did.

If you don't wanna it's up to you, but don't castigate others if they do.

Well then tell me, is opening the eyes from God if the church Pastor follows an charismatic famous german preacher who is promoting RCC theology?
I cant see an opening of eyes. I see a closing of eyes and acccepting from a "we all have the same believe" on cost of the biblical truth!

I am not familiar with this Charismatic RCC Movement so I will accept your word on it. But understanding what charismatic means, it really is a struggle to think the RCC could ever be labelled as such.

Point out these false doctrines ... I was saved by the message of the cross. We believe in Christ and Him crucified. that is one message the devil won't go near.

Yes we WILL and we ARE reaching all nations. And when the full number of the Gentiles come in will come the backlash, the conditions Jesus spoke about in Matt. 24. It is not me who says "this gospel will be preached in all nations for a witness .... "

Come on let's see some of those false doctrines.

Well, since the end of the 6ties the charismatic movement entered the RCC. For them it no problem to teach the RCC doctrine as well the Charismatic/pentecostal teachings about the Holy Spirit. So approximatly a 3rd ( but i am not shure this amount is correct) of RCC members can count to the Charismatic movement.

Why you then cant show me where it is taught to believers in the bible?

Evmur, you've been following this thread. Just go back a reread if you're still not sure what false doctrines I'm talking about; I've mentioned them repeatedly already. If it's an argument or a debate you're looking for, include me out.

Have to be honest here, like i try to be all of the time, but I am thinking the RCC becoming Charismatic has been a European issue. I do not find anything like it in the USA's RCC. In the USA, the RCC and majority of Denominations are pushing this Open and Affirming Doctrine for Same Sex Leaders that comes straight from the pits of Hell.

A friend of mine invited me to a church that his parents had been attending and I agreed to go with his parents, his wife and children. They handed me a bulletin when I sat down. As I was reading the pure baloney they stand for as Doctrine, a woman started speaking from the pulpit to read Psalms 138. I hurried and opened my Bible, not interested in using theirs, I began following along as she began reciting 138. Immediately, my version was much different than hers (mine being KJV). It had words describing God as the Mother of Nature and Her instead of Him. Red Flags were popping up in my spirit like a traffic stop light. Not long after her reciting Psalms 138, the Pastor approached the podium and began speaking. Without using my filter, the words just popped right out of my mouth, he is HOMOSEXUAL! Which made many turn toward me and give me hateful looks, including my friend and his family. I told my friend I can't do this, this is an outright abomination unto God. I got up and left. As I was exiting the building, an usher by the title of Deacon stopped me and asked if everything was ok? I said, Nope, I am not interested in entertaining your demons and walked away.

I went home and researched this Church. Turns out, it's an offshoot of the Catholic Church with less rules and regulations called the United Church of Christ. It was a complete Mockery unto God. But offshoots or the Catholic Church itself, here in the USA, they are not Charismatic, they are Demonic!

Paul said I wish that ye did all speak in tongues ... there it is, since we believe the Holy Spirit spoke through Paul, it is God's desire that ye did all speak in tongues.

Of COURSE you want an argument, what you mean is you don't want to lose an argument ... you posted this topic to start an argument or debate.

I dismissed your OP as a false premise because Pentecostalism did not begin at Asuza St. so it is not valid to argue against Pentecostalism on the basis of what happened at Asuza St.

You have to argue from the bible.

they take 1cor 13:8-10 and try to magically say the bible is here so the gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with. And when called on it they say it is too deep for one to understand or they result to human reasoning and " say " I have not seen anything done today as it was in the New Testament".

It only reveals true ignorance from them and I will prove it.

1. Paul used 2 forms of terms for Languages
1A. Tongues
1B. Speaking in Tongues

Whenever Paul spoke about the Heavenly Language he ALWAYS used Speaking in Tongues or Speaking in other Tongues. He clarifies there is a difference between Speaking in Tongues and talking in your own Language.

The Verse example in 1 Corinthians 13: 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
...specifies the normal Language.

Verse 8 does not state Speaking in Tongues, it clarifies Tongues only, which is English, Espano, Francais, Deutsch, Mandarin, Swahili, all human Languages.

There's coming a time when knowledge (which today we are more knowledgeable than at any other time) and tongues (all forms of Languages like our human Languages) will cease. Nowhere does this Verse relate to the Gifts of the Spirit!

Why they don't understand this is beyond me, but hey, slow is slow and many people fit that bill mentally!

LOL weak and completely out of context. The 1cor 13 is not about tongues it is about Love and using the gifts of the Holy without love..

FYI it is known in Christian Hermeneutics as the love Chapter.

And in addition, you are true "ignorance" because chapters 14 and 14 are unit Chapters speaking to the context started in Chapter 12.

If you understood the context and the Authorial intent you would know just because there is a new chapter doesn't mean the context has ended. You do not dismiss the context of 1cor Chapter 12 by changing it in Chapter 13.
The tongues identified in Chapter 12 which is a gift is the tongues spoken in chapters 13 & 14.

Please don't tell me about the ignorance you have displayed greatly here.

Thank you.