The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

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Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

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Dino246 said:
Your fearmongering is silly, because Jesus said, "the least IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD".
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There's nothing you can do to delegitimize my assertion that "called least in the kingdom of heaven" means "called least by those now in the kingdom of heaven" because it is a perfectly acceptable interpretation.

However, Scripture completely obliterates your doctrine of devils claiming people who break God's commandments and teach others to do so will be in the kingdom, per Revelation 22:14-15 KJV, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV, etc.

Holy Spirit conviction is just one click away...
 
cv5

cv5

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Phoneman-777 said:
There's nothing you can do to delegitimize my assertion that "called least in the kingdom of heaven" means "called least by those now in the kingdom of heaven" because it is a perfectly acceptable interpretation.

However, Scripture completely obliterates your doctrine of devils claiming people who break God's commandments and teach others to do so will be in the kingdom, per Revelation 22:14-15 KJV, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV, etc.

Holy Spirit conviction is just one click away...
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I recognize that you are a hardcore preterist. So then let me ask you:
What is to become of Israel the house of Jacob? Do they have a future or not?
 
cv5

cv5

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Dino246 said:
Futurists do EXACTLY the same thing with the 2,000-year gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

By the way, the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, His atoning death, and the resurrection are precious doctrines. The 1,000-year reign of Christ is a side issue. One need not believe it to be saved.
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Luke 21:24
"until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled"

Acts 1:6
"Lord will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

On the contrary I believe the Strictures support only ONE eschatological view. In devastatingly overwhelming fashion.....
 
cv5

cv5

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Phoneman-777 said:
No, it is a PERFECTLY EXACT, IDENTICAL ILLUSTRATION of the level of logical redonkulousness required to place a mythological "gap" between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniel - anyone can see that.
You don't understand the difference between your example of an Event Specific Prophecy and the 70 Weeks which is a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy, so please listen:

An Event Specific Prophecy is a prophecy where events mark the duration and/or time of fulfillment. A Numerically Specific Time Prophecy is a prophecy where a specified numerical value of time marks it.

There are ZERO instances where a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy failed to be fulfilled EXACTLY as numerically specified:
​
Noah preached for the predicted, numerically specified 120 years, no more.​
Sarah bore Isaac after the predicted, numerically specified 1 year, no more.​
Israel was enslaved in Egypt for the predicted, numerically specified 400 years, no more.​
Israel wandered the desert for the predicted, numerically specified 40 years, no more.​
Joshua took Jericho after marching around it for the predicted, numerically specific 7 days, no more.​
The famine during Ahab's reign lasted the predicted, numerically specified 3 1/2 years, no more.​
The Syrian siege of Samaria was over after the predicted, numerically specified 1 day, no more.​
The Shunammite woman bore a child after the predicted, numerically specified 1 year, no more.​
Israel was freed from Babylon after the predicted, numerically specified 70 years, no more.​
Nebuchadnezzar regained his sanity after the predicted, numerically specified 7 years, no more.​
Jesus mission was "complete" after the predicted, numerically specific 3 days (years), no more.​
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You have an insurmountable problem. No matter which way you slice it the preterist math doesn't work. And pray tell us what Daniel 9:27 is doing there.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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cv5 said:
So tell us: how do the hardcore preterists deal with the nation Israel, the house of Jacob? You do realize they are in the land correct?
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Not being one, and not following what they teach, I have no answer for you. As for the modern nation of Israel, only the Lord Himself knows whether the claimants to the name are actually descendants of Jacob.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Phoneman-777 said:
There's nothing you can do to delegitimize my assertion that "called least in the kingdom of heaven" means "called least by those now in the kingdom of heaven" because it is a perfectly acceptable interpretation.
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No, it isn't. It's ridiculous grasping at straws.

Phoneman-777 said:
However, Scripture completely obliterates your doctrine of devils claiming people who break God's commandments and teach others to do so will be in the kingdom, per Revelation 22:14-15 KJV, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV, etc.

Holy Spirit conviction is just one click away...
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Your attack is foolish, because you don't know jack about my views
 
Dino246

Dino246

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cv5 said:
Luke 21:24
"until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled"

Acts 1:6
"Lord will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

On the contrary I believe the Strictures support only ONE eschatological view. In devastatingly overwhelming fashion.....
Click to expand...
You're full of yourself.
 
randyk

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Nehemiah6 said:
Preterism is an absurd and heretical view of Bible prophecies. But well-known Christian personalities such as R. C. Sproul, James Kennedy, Hank Hannegraaf, and Jay Adams promote the heresy of Preterism. According to someone “it is spreading like wildfire” on social media. That is why Christian should know how absurd and heretical this view of prophecy really is, and reject it out of hand.

The heresy is primarily in the rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the real, visible, tangible, physical Second Coming of Christ with all His saints and angels, to the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19 and many other passages), and events to follow.

“According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.” [Got Questions]

So what does Preterism teach falsely? Here are their 14 absurdities:
1. There are no future events to be seen the book of Revelation.
2. All end-times prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70 (when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem). [Note: as a result they try to change the date of the writing of Revelation to before AD 70, when it is generally accepted as AD 95.]
3. There is no future 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist, and no temple in Jerusalem which he will desecrate with the Abomination of Desolation.
4. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation are already past.
*5. The Second Coming of Christ has already occurred as a “spiritual return”.
*6. The resurrection of the dead is already past.
*7. The final judgment is ongoing.* [*Note: Partial Preterists believe that these three are still in the future.]
8. There is no future Rapture.
9. There is no future literal Millennium.
10. The eternal Kingdom of God is already being established on earth.
11. The New Heavens and the New Earth have already come into existence.
12. The term “this generation” in the Olivet Discourse applied to Christ’s generation.
13. There will be no future redemption and restoration of Israel.
14. The Church has replaced Israel.

We could go into great detail as to why all these ideas are totally foolish. But the best biblical evidence against Preterism is the FACT that none of the cataclysmic cosmic events which are revealed in the Bible have occurred. And they will occur just before the Second Coming of Christ.

When we combine Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Luke 21:25-26, and Revelation 6:12-17, this is what we get – a series of events which are TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED and unimaginably devastating:

1. AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days” or “but in those days, after that tribulation” or “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake”

2. THE SUN SHALL BE DARKENED (BLACKENED)
“shall the sun be darkened” or “the sun shall be darkened” or “there shall be signs in the sun” or “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair”

3. THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED AS BLOOD
“the moon shall not give her light” or “there shall be signs in the moon” or “the moon became as blood”

4. THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN UPON EARTH
“the stars shall fall from heaven” or “the stars of heaven shall fall” or “there shall be signs in the stars” or “the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind”

5. THE POWERS OF THE HEAVEN SHALL BE SHAKEN, AND IT SHALL DEPART AS A SCROLL
“the powers of the heavens shall be shaken” or “the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken” or “the powers of heaven shall be shaken” or “the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together”

6. EVERY MOUNTAIN AND ISLAND WILL BE MOVED OUT ITS PLACE
“upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity” or “every mountain and island were moved out of their places”

7. THE SEA AND WAVES WILL ROAR AS NEVER BEFORE
“the sea and the waves roaring”

8. MEN’S HEARTS WILL FAIL THEM BECAUSE OF FEAR
“Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth” or “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Had any of this happened already, we would not even be living on this earth as it exists, and the heavenly bodies would not continue to exist as we see them.
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You seem to make some errors here, as well as the error of grouping all preterists together into fixed beliefs. It's not wrong to generalize, but over-generalization is, I think, wrong

A major flaw in your argument involves the insinuation that the Olivet Discourse must refer to a futurist interpretation, excluding any application to Jesus' generation. This view was the historicist view of the Church Fathers, long before Preterism came along. And so you confuse these matters.

Also, you seem to put together two divergent Scripture passages, without crediting them as such. "Immediately after the tribulation" and "there will be a great earthquake" do not appear together, in my understanding.

There are so many confusing conflations that I would have to speak to them one by one. In a nutshell, I'm not a Preterist, nor a Partial Preterist, and I do believe the focus of the Olivet Discourse was on Jesus' generation.

That being said, I also believe Revelation has a future fulfillment, and that there will be a literal Antichrist who reigns for 3.5 years.

The "Great Tribulation" is the Jewish Punishment and Diaspora of the present age, and lasts all through history, until Christ returns to save the Jews. This interpretation is neither the Preterist view nor your view, apparently. But you don't address that at all, as if only those who view it as being in the future is correct. Both your view and the Preterist view are wrong on this!
 
cv5

cv5

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Dino246 said:
Not being one, and not following what they teach, I have no answer for you. As for the modern nation of Israel, only the Lord Himself knows whether the claimants to the name are actually descendants of Jacob.
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You have no answer for me regarding Israel? Despite the fact that the Bible is by content nearly two thirds prophecy pertaining to their future? My my but that IS a crippling deficiency for any professing Christian. Shameful really.

But not to worry. For surely Luke 1:32 and 1:67-75 will be fulfilled. Inevitably and to the letter.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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cv5 said:
You have no answer for me regarding Israel? Despite the fact that the Bible is by content nearly two thirds prophecy pertaining to their future? My my but that IS a crippling deficiency for any professing Christian. Shameful really.
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My answer was clear to anyone who isn't looking for excuses to throw insults.
 
Ahwatukee

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cv5 said:
I recognize that you are a hardcore preterist. So then let me ask you:
What is to become of Israel the house of Jacob? Do they have a future or not?
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For those who are preterists, I guess God's wrath wasn't so bad after all, huh. These people have no idea of the severity and magnitude of what is about to come upon this world with the literal fulfillment of those seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
 
Evmur

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Phoneman-777 said:
Just like all those who break the Ten Commandments and teach others to do the same will be judged as "the least" before being cast into the Lake of Fire, and rightly so, according to Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, right?
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They shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, but they will be in the kingdom of heaven.

... I have no sense that you are in the kingdom of heaven.
 
cv5

cv5

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Dino246 said:
My answer was clear to anyone who isn't looking for excuses to throw insults.
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A serious study of Daniel chapters 7 thru 12 thoroughly and resoundingly debunks any preterist pretentions. Going further, understanding that the whole of the Bible fully supports Daniel's prophecies totally buries preterism. Preterism is an unbiblical heresy.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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cv5 said:
A serious study of Daniel chapters 7 thru 12 thoroughly and resoundingly debunks any preterist pretentions. Going further, understanding that the whole of the Bible fully supports Daniel's prophecies totally buries preterism. Preterism is an unbiblical heresy.
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You’re welcome to your opinion. :)
 
OrphanedRepublican

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I've never heard of preterism. And I was raised in a Presbyterian church. I must have learned it growing up. Funny how I've forgotten everything from those days since I began studying the bible myself.
 
cv5

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Dino246 said:
You’re welcome to your opinion. :)
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Daniel 12:1 matches Joel 2:1,2 and Jer 30:7 which Jesus confirms in Matt 24:21 and Mk 13:19. All of which of course is overshadowed by Daniel ch 9.

What the preterists dismiss is the plethora of scriptures indicating that Israel will be delivered out of this time of great tribulation.
Dan 7:18,27; Zech 12:10; 13:8-9; Jer 30:7,11; Isa 14:12-17; Job 1:6, 21-7; Zech 3:1-5; Rev 12:6-7.

This is of course ushers in the millennial reign.

I find it interesting that when real scriptural references are actully being offered, I get nothing more than radio silence out of the preterists.
 
cv5

cv5

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OrphanedRepublican said:
I've never heard of preterism. And I was raised in a Presbyterian church. I must have learned it growing up. Funny how I've forgotten everything from those days since I began studying the bible myself.
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As you watch this thread please notice that scriptural references posed are never properly answered by phoneman-777. Preterism is easily debunked. And confirmed by the radio silence of the preterist proponents.
 
cv5

cv5

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Preterists and amillennialists have NO ANSWER to a mere 12 verses:

Ezekiel 20:33-44....
 
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