Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,261
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#2,261
Truth7t7 said:
You mean the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) created by Adulterers Kurt & Barbara Aland, and homosexual union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) that supports modern translations NIV, ESV, NASB, RSV, Etc:)
Click to expand...
No, the Greek language as used in the Bible.

My goodness, you are dense sometimes. Or maybe not just sometimes.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#2,262
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#2,262
Major said:
#4........The point is and was, there is NO SPECIFIC word in the Scriptures as TRINITY. I believe in it, but again, the SPECIFIC word is not found. When the word "Godhead" was used it was to validate that Jesus was God in the flesh bodily.
Click to expand...
Your claim is false, the word (Godhead) is used to represent the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, As One

Acts 17:29KJV
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20KJV
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#2,263
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#2,263
Dino246 said:
No, the Greek language as used in the Bible.

My goodness, you are dense sometimes. Or maybe not just sometimes.
Click to expand...
Open Denial Of Presented Truth Below

The Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) Dosent Support My KJV Holy Bible (Fact)

You mean the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) created by Adulterers Kurt & Barbara Aland, and homosexual union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) that supports modern translations NIV, ESV, NASB, RSV, Etc
 
Aidan1

Aidan1

Well-known member
#2,264
Mar 17, 2021
1,680
705
113
#2,264
EnglishChick said:
Does it say man has to be married to be pastor? Doesn't it simple say he should not be polygamous?



I took it to mean that if the pastor be married it should be to only one wife. Bear in mind in surrounding cultures and faiths at the time Paul was writing, polygamy was v popular. The pagans were into it big time as is still the case.today.
Click to expand...
Well EC, its ok to take the initial?
I would say, according the text. Yes he should be married. Then the verses 1.Tim .3, 4- 5 make sense. An unmarried man has, normally no family. Solong his father is alive and he is the eldest son of the family.
Polygamy is in my understanding not the problem. 1. the Roman and greec culture was with exceptions monogamie. 2. He should not be devorced and remarried. If he, then he has according the bible 2 woman.
I think that point 2 is here meant.
 
M

Major

Active member
#2,265
Dec 12, 2020
885
183
43
#2,265
Truth7t7 said:
Your claim is false, the word (Godhead) is used to represent the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, As One

Acts 17:29KJV
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20KJV
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I said. IN Jesus rests the Godhead bodily!!!

WHY do you feel the need need to argue everything???? Are you that insecure?????

Col 1:19..........

Tools
"for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell,".
 
M

Major

Active member
#2,266
Dec 12, 2020
885
183
43
#2,266
CS1 said:
yes, he did know that but he did also speak on the gift of those who did not marry. The only reason why HE said not to marry ( Not by the law but his reasoning) was so one can do more for the kingdom of God. When a Man is married God expects him to take care of his home and family First. If he cannot do this, then he is not qualified to Pastor. That is one of the most stringent arguments for women not being pastors I think, is God holds the man responsible for the family.

Women have been made to do it by default. man has left the home and made women do adultery as Jesus said.
Click to expand...
You have agreed with what I have said!
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#2,267
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#2,267
Major said:
That is exactly what I said. IN Jesus rests the Godhead bodily!!!

WHY do you feel the need need to argue everything???? Are you that insecure?????

Col 1:19..........

Tools
"for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell,".
Click to expand...
Ok we agree, there us a word to use in your KJV Holy Bible to represent the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, its (Godhead) not (Trinity)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,268
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#2,268
Truth7t7 said:
Open Denial Of Presented Truth Below

The Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) Dosent Support My KJV Holy Bible (Fact)

You mean the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece) created by Adulterers Kurt & Barbara Aland, and homosexual union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) that supports modern translations NIV, ESV, NASB, RSV, Etc
Click to expand...
Your comment is foolish and irrelevant. I meant what I wrote, exactly as I wrote it, and you definitely don't have the intelligence to tell me otherwise.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#2,269
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#2,269
Major said:
NOPE!

It just seems to me that your only goal is to argue when there is NO argument to be made.

You either accept the Word of God or YOU reject the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Yes but the church has already fallen away from the bible in the matter of church leadership, in fact the bible pattern for church government was not recovered at the Reformation.

Praise the Lord we had new light, great doctrines were brought to the fore, I give thanks for the reformers. But the new wine was poured into old wineskins, the priest became pastor, the bishop became moderator or some such and the cardinal became general secretary.

That is not the bible pattern for church leadership, the results are plain for everybody to see, we have men in places of leadership who were ordained by men but neither called or ordained by God. THAT is the real problem.

If you give me a choice between a man who has no calling or unction and a woman who is Spirit filled and unctioned I will choose the latter. I am not choosing her sex but her unction.

And unction is a tangible thing.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#2,270
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,959
113
#2,270
Major said:
NO it is not.

At certain times when the Bible uses "MAN" it is a different word which means HUMANITY!

In the Scriptures I posted from 1 Timothy 3:1-2.......the Greek word used for MAN is as masculine pronoun meaning "MAN".

Then in verse #2....the word in Greek for "HUSBAND" is also a masculine pronoun and it is an "Antecedent" which meand it identifes and verifies the SUBJECT in the preceding verse which was "MAN".
Click to expand...
Outright lies now? What is this mysterious word you are talking about. Anthropos can be used to say human or humanity. But, it is NOT in that passage.

Not one word means men, in that passages, except for the husband must not be polygamous!

Oh, besides not saying this non-existent word, you forgot your sources!
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#2,271
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,959
113
#2,271
CS1 said:
Poop poop? OOOoooohhhh K.

There is no bad translation if there is then you must have used it to make up the false narrative. What translation did you use to come up with your understanding?

You can't say we use a bad translation and not provide the transition you are using to make your assertion truly is Scubala.

YOu can say we are wrong for a bad translation and not provide the passages in the "correct translation" you use. Please provide it. If you can, or can't, then it is your opinion; we at least have what you call a bad translation. You have Nada.
Click to expand...
Lucy-Pevensie said:
You are probably wasting your breath. (so to speak)
Never mind, I'm starting to like the dogmatic patriarchal reckoning where women are excluded from things. Like last days judgements ;)

Rev 8:11 (KJV)
And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev 9:4 (KJV)
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Rev 9:6 (KJV)
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev 9:10 (KJV)
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Rev 9:15 (KJV)
And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Rev 9:18 (KJV)
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev 9:20 (KJV)
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev 11:13 (KJV)
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 13:13 (KJV)
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 16:2 (KJV)
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Rev 16:8 (KJV)
And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

Rev 16:9 (KJV)
And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Rev 16:21 (KJV)
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Click to expand...
Good try! But no cigar! This is one place where the word is ἀνθρώπος anthropos which includes men and women.

I wish you were right, but as usual the KJV mistranslates anthropos and makes it about men, not "people". Here are a few translations which are right!

"Now[a] the name of the star is Wormwood.)[c] So[d] a third of the waters became wormwood,[e] and many people died from these waters because they were poisoned.[f]" Rev. 8:11 NET

"the name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter." Rev 8:11 NIV

"The star is named Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the waters because they were made bitter." Rev. 8:11 NASB

"The name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter." Rev 8:11 ESV

"They[a] were told not to damage the grass of the earth, or any green plant or tree, but only those people[c] who did not have the seal of God on their[d] forehead." Rev 9:4 NET

[c] ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos) is used in a generic sense here of both men and women.

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 NIV

"They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 NASB

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 ESV

In all fairness to the KJV in this case, until very recently, the word "men" was inclusive of women. I am sure that is the meaning the translators meant to convey. Certainly every modern version has gone to translating anthropos as "people." It is more specific, but this started sometime in the 21st century! It was used by KJV and was a valid translation 400 years ago!
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#2,272
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,959
113
#2,272
CS1 said:
Poop poop? OOOoooohhhh K.

There is no bad translation if there is then you must have used it to make up the false narrative. What translation did you use to come up with your understanding?

You can't say we use a bad translation and not provide the transition you are using to make your assertion truly is Scubala.

YOu can say we are wrong for a bad translation and not provide the passages in the "correct translation" you use. Please provide it. If you can, or can't, then it is your opinion; we at least have what you call a bad translation. You have Nada.
Click to expand...

I did not write the first words of my last post, nor the eyes. I have no idea where it came from. But I do apologize for the glitch, as that is not my style, ever!

Second, I really have no clue what you are talking about! I did not used ANY translation! I used Koine Greek. It is the SBL 5 edition, which I own a copy, and use Biblegateway.com when I am on my Iphone. If I was on my computer, I would switch to my Koine Greek keyboard! Koine Greek is the language the original in which the autographs, or original inspired manuscripts were written, which have never been found. But lots of copies, dated from the 2nd century AD.

The bad translation are the ones that insert "men" or "he" when it is not there in the original language. Then men who are misled, are using translations with the wrong words, to prove their point that women cannot be pastors, when Paul wrote no such thing!

Got it? I did NOT use a translation! I used Greek to compare to the translations!
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#2,273
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#2,273
Major said:
Well.....if we open the door to accept NEW Revelation from God, then you are placing everything in the hands of a SINNER, a man.

How would you know if what he said was from God or from Satan????

If you will recall...that is exactly how man fell, by changing the Word of God.

IF we open the door to NEW revelations, will we not have another KORAN?

Then consider for a moment that the NEW revelations from Joseph Smith, the founder and author of the Mormon scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price), presents God as being an exalted man, who lived on some planet out in the universe, who earned the right to godhood by being faithful and doing good works. This is completely counter to everything that the Bible says about the person, nature and character of God. Further, there are irreconcilable contradictions between Mormon scriptures, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price which clearly establishes its human authorship. God does not contradict Himself as the LDS Standard Works do.

There are two types of revelation: Special and General.

General revelation applies to the knowledge of God that comes from looking at nature and the universe.

Special revelation is God speaking directly to man, and that revelation being written under the "inspiration" of God, the Holy Spirit. (2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21) Special revelation is God's specific information and instructions to man. The sixty six books that comprise our Bible is special revelation from God.

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus warned for these false teachers saying .....
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Click to expand...
I don't think you understood my point.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#2,274
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#2,274
CS1 said:
You can't dismiss "theologians " Paul was one.
Click to expand...
I didn't think of it that way. I knew he was a trained pharisee, but so what? What good did his theology as a pharisee do for anyone? And when he was converted, he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and the Spirit spoke through him from then on. So, who cares about man's theology?
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#2,275
Dec 20, 2017
9,388
5,729
113
#2,275
Angela53510 said:
Good try! But no cigar! This is one place where the word is ἀνθρώπος anthropos which includes men and women.

I wish you were right, but as usual the KJV mistranslates anthropos and makes it about men, not "people". Here are a few translations which are right!

"Now[a] the name of the star is Wormwood.)[c] So[d] a third of the waters became wormwood,[e] and many people died from these waters because they were poisoned.[f]" Rev. 8:11 NET

"the name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter." Rev 8:11 NIV

"The star is named Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the waters because they were made bitter." Rev. 8:11 NASB

"The name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter." Rev 8:11 ESV

"They[a] were told not to damage the grass of the earth, or any green plant or tree, but only those people[c] who did not have the seal of God on their[d] forehead." Rev 9:4 NET

[c] ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos) is used in a generic sense here of both men and women.

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 NIV

"They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 NASB

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Rev 9:4 ESV

In all fairness to the KJV in this case, until very recently, the word "men" was inclusive of women. I am sure that is the meaning the translators meant to convey. Certainly every modern version has gone to translating anthropos as "people." It is more specific, but this started sometime in the 21st century! It was used by KJV and was a valid translation 400 years ago!
Click to expand...
My post was tongue in cheek. Lighten up.
 
1

101G

Banned
#2,276
Apr 1, 2021
294
60
28
#2,276
Major said:
You mean with all of this detailed information you provide ...YOU do not know the duties of a Church Pastor?????

I would have thought you were an expert on this subject but since you do not seem to know allow me to tell you that as a pastor, you provide spiritual leadership to members of a church. Your duties include preparing weekly sermons, preaching and conducting worship services. It's your responsibility to interpret biblical scripture for the congregation. You also provide care and counseling to church members and assist them in crisis situations along with visits as needed by those who are in need.

However.......none of that has anything to do with Paul not being a Pastor. There is NOT ONE single Scripture that says he was a church Pastor. A church PLANTER.....YES, but nothing about being a Pastor.

So then....now what is your point?
Click to expand...
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, "preparing weekly sermons, preaching"... LOL, " conducting worship services." My God, and NO, it's not your responsibility to interpret biblical scripture for the congregation" LOL, LOL, LOL, that's what worldy pastors do, prepare weekly sermons, and conduct worship service, and WHAT?, interpret biblical scripture, Just as I thought, you have no clue what a biblical pastor duties are. this is why so many of these congregation, (NOT THE CHURCH), are in so much trouble today.

and then you had the nerve to say Paul was not the pastor of a church.... lol, this is just what I mean about unlearned christians, and then want to call someone else "silly". well listen up, the CHURCH is the BODY of Christ, (PEOPLE), not some wooden, or brick structure... LOL, LOL, LOL, see your ignorance now. you think a church is some building structure, (where people gather), and a pastor is the preacher standing in that building speaking?. (well that's the man of SIN)...... in your own words how "SILLY" is that.

and as for Pastors, let get the basic duties first which you have no clue..... Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." someone who is ignorant and silly would might say, well that's OT, well lets see. Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

well now, what GOD commanded in the OT is the same today, "to FEED the FLOCK of GOD". which many today as you say, "preparing weekly sermons, preaching". if any Pastor have to PREPARE a sermon, then he or she is not a Pastor of God. that's as you said is "SILLY", and UN-BIBICIAL. because A. it's only ONE PREACHER in the church of God, and that\s God himself, the Lord Jesus. B. a Pastor in Christ do not prepare a sermon, the Word of God is Given, for he or she do not speak, for it is God who speak in them. for we are all ambassador of christ, and a ambassador do not speak he's or her own mind but the mind of him who has sent them. which means one must have the MIND OF CHRIST, 1 Corinthians 2:16. which sets up C. no man interpret any scripture in or for any congergatation, not IN CHRIST. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." that just killed any "preparing weekly sermons, preaching"... lol.

ignorant men like this, (who make up sermons), is what hinder many from coming to Christ. they don't even know the BASIC of what a Pastor is, in or outside the church. and the qualification for a man, (male), to be a Pastor/Bishop is true, 1 Timothy 3:5 "(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" BINGO, ingorant, "SILLY" men are overseeing some, not all congregation, and they don't even know how to rule their own house... First. that's why many (congregation), are in the ditch today, because of IGNORANT ", silly men, (males), MEN". .... yes "MEN", who are IGNORANT, and SILLY as you used the word. neither apt to TEACH.... meaning to FEED, yes those "prepared", TV DINNER sermons. no wonder so many congregation are WEAK, and SICK, amoung us, eating all those "prepared", TV DINNER sermons. it's ashame being feed a TV dinner sermon, instead a wholesome cook meal from scratch, straight from God himself. and as said, many are sick, weak, and dying... Just as the scriptures states,
1 Corinthians 11:28 "But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup."
1 Corinthians 11:29 "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
1 Corinthians 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." sleep? .... DEAD, from eating to many "prepared", TV DINNER sermons.

we suggest one re-read this post...... either you awake unto righteousness, or you can sleep in INGORANCE... your choice.

PICJAG,
101G.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#2,277
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#2,277
Angela53510 said:
I did not write the first words of my last post, nor the eyes. I have no idea where it came from. But I do apologize for the glitch, as that is not my style, ever!

Second, I really have no clue what you are talking about! I did not used ANY translation! I used Koine Greek. It is the SBL 5 edition, which I own a copy, and use Biblegateway.com when I am on my Iphone. If I was on my computer, I would switch to my Koine Greek keyboard! Koine Greek is the language the original in which the autographs, or original inspired manuscripts were written, which have never been found. But lots of copies, dated from the 2nd century AD.

The bad translation are the ones that insert "men" or "he" when it is not there in the original language. Then men who are misled, are using translations with the wrong words, to prove their point that women cannot be pastors, when Paul wrote no such thing!

Got it? I did NOT use a translation! I used Greek to compare to the translations!
Click to expand...
Ok, You do realize the Old Testament was written in Hebrew?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#2,278
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#2,278
OrphanedRepublican said:
I didn't think of it that way. I knew he was a trained pharisee, but so what? What good did his theology as a pharisee do for anyone? And when he was converted, he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and the Spirit spoke through him from then on. So, who cares about man's theology?
Click to expand...
Not all Pharisees were bad. Jesus talked to many of them Like Nicodemious you will find in John chapter 3. Paul knew the word of God which at that time was only the Old Testament, and it was his studying of the old as pharisee who sat under a great theologian Pual named him AFTER he was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. Paul did say he counts all that as dun.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#2,279
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#2,279
If you believe that the Bible is God's inerrant word to us, then you believe that he has presented it to us exactly as intended. Yes, there are translation issues. No, they have no effect on the cause and effect of God's word to us. God's word does exactly as he intends it for each and every one of us.

Endless disputes over technical translation errors suggest that God did not either know about them or allow them. I don't believe God left the translation of his word to us in the hands of fallible men. Challenging the translation and meaning of the Bible is challenging God's work, not man's work.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,280
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#2,280
OrphanedRepublican said:
If you believe that the Bible is God's inerrant word to us, then you believe that he has presented it to us exactly as intended. Yes, there are translation issues. No, they have no effect on the cause and effect of God's word to us. God's word does exactly as he intends it for each and every one of us.

Endless disputes over technical translation errors suggest that God did not either know about them or allow them. I don't believe God left the translation of his word to us in the hands of fallible men. Challenging the translation and meaning of the Bible is challenging God's work, not man's work.
Click to expand...
I would guess from your comments that you have never learned a second language, and that you have not studied the history of the Bible. I also suspect that you have spend a fair bit of time in a very top-heavy church where you are told what to believe instead of being taught to develop your own relationship with God.

Of course God is aware of the issues, and did allow them. Neither impinges on His character. Discussing them is not challenging His work; it is trying to understand it and Him through it.

You're certainly welcome to your views, but I would have to ask: if you truly believe this, why are you on a Bible Discussion forum at all?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.