Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

The terms in 1 Timothy 3 are gender-neutral with the sole exception of "husband". The problem is as much one of closed-mindedness with regard to gendered language as it is with the translations being incorrect.

There is no need for speculation regarding Phoebe's role. Paul called her a deacon, using the same word that he used in the qualifications for deacons.

But you are using circular training. Just because bad translations have led to women not being accepted as pastors, the human made rules of women not being pastors, probably stopped many woman from answering the call. If you are told your whole life that only men can be deacons or pastors, even a call from God might be met with uncertainty, by many women. Esp. if the poor woman is getting hounded with all kinds of verses that do NOT say only men, or only he!

I know, because God called me in the early 1990's to go to Regent College, Vancouver. I didn't even tell my husband, but it was heavy in my heart. I believed the lie that women can't be pastors. I had 4 children, only 1 old enough to take care of himself. I was working teaching music in elementary schools, a job I loved!

So, I rationalized it away. I saw my pastor fawn over these young man, and he started mentoring them to be pastors. However, the denomination required an undergrad degree, which none of them had. So add 4 years to 3 in seminary. 7 years of trying to make ends meet. Gradually the men dropped out of the church. The one young man he was really pressing, found a job related to music in a church far away, and he too, quit our church. Then there was me! When he was preaching a call to all these men, I felt the call of God so strongly. It was only 3 hours from where I lived, but 2/3rds was online. When I asked my pastor if I could apply for seminary, the only question he asked me was whether I thought I was called to be a pastor. I said no, I just had a call, not a call to do a certain tile. I imagine if I had answered in the affirmative, he would have not signed my church papers to be admitted. One more woman not in ministry.

So I applied, and I met many woman who were pastors and even an Anglican priest (a woman). We had long discussions on being called as women. It gave me the support I needed, and the same for others. I had a job offer when I moved to BC to be a chaplain, which I would have loved! But my meds failed, it took about 4 years to replace them. I was bed bound, so I didn't apply. God continued to lead me. One day, I got an email from my Greek teacher, saying he was teaching 2nd year seminary Greek online, including weekly Zoom meetings to discuss the material we had translated. It was a great course. I heard about needing German. I had a couple of years of German in high school. There were a lot of grammatical similarities between German and Greek, and I picked up the language well enough to qualify for my next step, watch TV and read the Bible. I spoke French fluently, from high school French, and working with my grandmere, who was from France. I applied for a PhD program and was accepted, and I get accommodations for my health.

I close with asking, how many women did I meet in 30 years who had experienced a call to lead God's people, but stuffed it down, because women can't be pastors? Our assistant pastor is a young woman, and she does a fantastic job. She is taking one course at a time, towards her MDiv. And learning lots about ministry from the job.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Bible had been correctly translated, instead of the mess the KJV committee made of these verses. How many more women would have accepted the call to further the Kingdom of God? Would 1/2 of our pastors be women? Or maybe more, or less? I don't even believe your 99% estimate of men occupied pastoral positions. I know many women pastors. And most of them women who brought down the barriers and blocks from them being obedient to God. Even if it was 30% of women were pastors, they still would be valid pastors, and someone little girls look up to.

I'm no feminist anymore, but the kingdom of God needs everyone working, and not putting women down because they have never had a hand up! Shows you that women are ready to fight for the gospel, and not just babysit in the nursery, or organize pot lucks! What a waste of 51% of church members!

I'm a woman and not offended by the prohibition in church. We (women) are an earthly sign or picture of mankind and men are an earthly sign or picture of Jesus, the man.

No one presumes to teach the Lord Jesus doctrine. No one presumes to teach spiritual truths to God. Yet, that is exactly the appearance we give as a woman, depicting mankind, teaching doctrine to men, depicting the Lord Jesus, in church in an official role in clergy.

Paul says it better than me:

1 Corinthians 14:36 What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?

The word of God came from God to man, not the other way around. This verse makes sense to me. It's not about inequity, it's more about keeping up appearances.

Did you read my post about 1 Tim 3:1-11 and how other than a "husband must not be a polygamist," the Greek, the language the New Testament was written in, is NOT written to men, but purposely written in language that is inclusive. You are probably hearing the words in your head "male" or "man" wrongly, because that is what you learned years ago. Because Greek simply does NOT say men in this passage.

I can rattle off the KJV Lord's prayer in seconds, but knowing that their are translational issues, I don't. I translated the Lord's prayer into English from Greek, and the words are correct, even if I have to say it slower, because I didn't say it in school daily for 9 years, just the KJV. It is not automatic like KJV, because I learned it as a child, and repeated it millions of times!

Try and open your closed mind. You have always been respectful to me, and been a good friend. I don't want to get into a fight with you. But the truth is, there are no male nouns or pronouns in that passage. And it's hard to translate into English when most of our nouns and pronouns are gendered. We don't even have "Man" as a a non gendered word like you do in German.

I would challenge you to take some Greek courses. Greek is very similar to German, using cases for nouns/pronouns and adjectives. Right now, it's hard to understand a language with totally different letters. But if you stick to it, I would hope we could discuss it on even grounds. As it is, a lot of men are quoting Bibles that have so many added gender words, especially "men or male", which are just not there in any of the Greek texts! Let me know when we can both discuss the Greek, without a gender bias. I would love to explain this again, and have you see your mistake! No words like Men or he in this passage! No, I am not reading into the text at all. I am reading the words that are there. If anyone is putting their spin on this, it is men who don't want women to be preachers, teachers or leaders in Church! And they accomplish this by bad translations, which reaffirm their bias, and men don't care as long as no woman is ahead of him! That's a word called misogyny! Jesus was never a misogynist, he must be disappointed to see so many legalistic men, using Bibles that are translated wrong to support their untenable theories!

Be like Paul and walk away. In fact, if you think that Angela is wrong and unwilling . . . walk away. We're commanded to do so.

The problem is . . . I don't think that she's wrong. Therefore, I'd be listening to her on the street . . . and especially within the church building.

Dino, what then makes you shure that 1. Tim 3, 1-5 and Titus 1, 5-9 is adressed to woman? Please from the text.
I want try to understand why you come to this view.

Thanks for your adwise !

Well, the post to Dino was my last to this thread. I dont want " fight " with you. For to study greec I have no time. But I will look little more into the text. Now I go to sleep
Have a blessed night.

I was replying to your discourtesy to me

Real Big Smiles!

You assumed that I aspired to all these doctrines while in fact you did actually belong to them ... that's why I threw that JW jibe at you.

A Liberal In Rebellion To Gods Truth Aidan, Its That Simple

2 Timothy 3:8-9KJV
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

You are the one who went off topic, one of us actually did belong to the AOG and it wasn't me.

I've been addressing the question raised by those who say women are not permitted to speak or share in the ministry.

The poster defy's the very simple truth of God, it's that simple

The topic has surrounded women speaking in the "Church", as you throw "Ministry" in as the disguise, it appears you don't like Gods clear words below, as Frank Sinatra sung, "I'll do it my way"

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Now you can speak about bad translation all you want, but it is well-known as a normative God in all translations use men more than women. "circular training" what is that?

If you are going to see it as an emotional issue please do not make it a Biblical one. And I am not saying women can't minister what I am saying is the word of God in every translation has men called By God to lead the church and the people of God.

Even those women prophets were under a judge or ruler. Paul, Peter, John, James none of them took women on as Pastors. There are women who today do the work of a pastor, evangelist, prophet and yet do not take the title as I myself and a minister of a denomination but I am not the pastor but I could be but I am not. My calling is to be an evangelist/ teacher but I am working as a pastor's assistance or as an asst. Pastor or associate pastor. You do not need the title to fulfill your calling. If you were properly disciples you would know this.

Learn proper English grammar. Your grade 3 understanding thereof is amusing, but doesn't convey intelligence.

NO sir.....it was done out of ignorance.

No you were not. You just got called out and now you are trying to cover your tracks.

Why not stop responding to my posts and we can then be best friends?????

!st of all....I do not want you to get into any trouble with the copy rite laws, so I am asking you to post your sourse for your information that you copied and pasted.

In the 2nd place......I am not discussing theology at all. I simply posted the Scriptures and the reast comes from all of you who want to argue with God.

The in the 3nd place, No mam, you are the one who is incorrect. Allow me to show you................

King James Bible
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

New King James Version
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.

New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1995
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

NASB 1977
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

Amplified Bible
This is a faithful and trustworthy saying: if any man [eagerly] seeks the office of overseer (bishop, superintendent), h edesires an excellent task.

Christian Standard Bible
This saying is trustworthy: “If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
This saying is trustworthy: "If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work."

American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This is a trustworthy saying, that if a man desires Eldership, he desires a good work.

Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Good News Translation
This is a true saying: If a man is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.