Who is the beast that was and is not?

Interesting, I have never heard that before. Can I ask you something more?

1. Do you believe in the pre-trib rapture?

2. Do you believe in a millennium here on earth. (Premillenialism)

3. Can you show me some of the changed prophecies when the new covenant occured?

4. Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says prophecies can be changed or have changed?

Please consider Psalm 110:4
The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:

Did you ever consider that the "other beasts" does not refer to the beasts that came before the 4th beast in Daniel 7?

The "other beasts" refers to the beasts that will come after the 4th beast in Daniel 7.

Therefore, the 1st beast in Revelation is not a single beast. It is a compilation of all the other beasts that were and are to come.

The "other beasts" is also translated to "the rest of the beasts". This implies the "other beasts" come after the 4th beast.

Daniel 7:12
King James Bible
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

7 Continents? No, neither Greece nor Rome covered that much ground.

Only on certain things. God has changed his mind before:


Consider King Hezekiah. God told him to get his house in order because he was about to die. Hezekiah begged the Lord to let him live, so He gave him 15 more years. God did not change, but God changed his mind! Two very different things!

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Ex 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB


Amos 7:1 Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, He was forming a locust-swarm when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king's mowing.
2 And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said, "Lord GOD, please pardon! How can Jacob stand, For he is small?"
3 The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
4 ¶Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, the Lord GOD was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farm land.
5 Then I said, "Lord GOD, please stop! How can Jacob stand, for he is small?"
6 The LORD changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord GOD.
7 ¶Thus He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall, with a plumb line in His hand.
8 And the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Amos?" And I said, "A plumb line." Then the Lord said, "Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will spare them no longer.


Another time God changed his mind was regarding the Israelites and the golden calf. God initially was going to destroy them and make a new nation of people from the descendants of Moses instead but Moses intervened and God changed His mind again and allowed the people of Israel to live.



Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.



Here God feels like he should not have created mankind. He regrets the decision and is very upset over it. If God didn't change his mind he would not have to regret any decisions. It also shows that he didn't know that man would have become so wicked otherwise he wouldn't have made man.




Isa 5:2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

"He dug it all around, removed its stones, and planted it with the choicest vine. And He built a tower in the middle of it and also hewed out a wine vat in it; Then He expected it to produce good grapes, but it produced only worthless ones" (Isa. 5:2).

Here God clearly expected one thing but another thing occurred proving in this particular situation showing he did not know what would occur.


God can choose to know the future or choose not to as in the above example.


Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.


How does an all knowing God not remember sins? Wouldn't that be a contradiction?


For example, his knowledge of the future is "iffy" in the case of Sodom. "If I find... " Also, Jer. 18 states that God warns, then waits to see what happens, before taking action. Now, if God know the future ahead of time, he would not have to wait around to see what is going to happen.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

He's going to kill everyone and everything except fish/sealife.



It is only after that thought does he give grace to one man and his family:

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

That's God changing his mind to spare one family and a lot of animals because originally he feels like destroying all and saving none.


It's the same with the sister story of Lot. Originally he was going to kill all, but Abraham intervenes and tries to get God to spare everyone if a certain number of righteous people were found. Enough wasn't found but God does decide to, again, spare one man and his family.




That's not a very good argument. 4 beasts are mentioned, then we are told that the 4th beast is destroyed then it speaks of what happened to the other beasts. Clearly it's a reference to the beasts that were already mentioned.




No other beasts are said to come after the ten horned beast, not in Daniel or Revelation. The 4th beast is the last beast.






No, the Revelation 13:1 beast is one beast who has similarities to former beasts.




No, that clearly is Daniel telling us what happens to the 3 beasts he told us about.

I believe God does not just willy-nilly change his mind.

God can "change" his mind if he is justified to do so.

Now Going back to the Daniel 7 Beasts:
IF God changed his mind on his Daniel 7 Beasts prophesy THEN what is God's purpose, meaning and justification for this? What is God teaching us by "changing" his mind here?

If you cannot find any purpose or meaning to teach us something then I would advise against suggesting that God changed his mind for no justifiable reason.

No one believes that.



And thart is quite easy to prove as I did in the previous post.








It isn't debatable that God changed some things between Daniels prophecies and what John was shown. He doesn't tell us why but He did do it. Also, God does not need to justify anything to you or me. He can change his mind if he wishes for any or no reason at all. I would suggest reading the last 4-5 chapters of Job to cover that part.

Well than maybe your God will change his mind and take away the salvation he gave you. Good luck with your changeable God.

No, post trib



Yes.




Off the top of my head. Daniel has 3 of 10 horns being plucked up while Revelation has none plucked up.
Daniel has the first 3 beasts existing after the 4th beast with ten (eventually 7) horns is destroyed where Revelation has no beasts existing after it's ten horned beast is destroyed.




Seems that there was something God said would happen but then he changes his mind and decides not to do it. I can't remember where that is but it's in the OT. Something about killing a lot of people but then he decides not to. But the examples between Daniels ten horned beast and Rev's are solid examples. Another one is the OT's new heaven and new Earth where people still die but in Revelation 21's new heaven and new Earth death no longer exists.

Good luck impressing people with insults and unChristian attitude.

Well than maybe your God will change his mind and take away the salvation he gave you. Good luck with your changeable God.

My God is steadfast. My God is not like shifting sands. My God is a Rock!

Do you believe the future beast kingdom to have something to do with Rome as the 8th king is from the 7?

Or what do you believe it is?

What about the mark of the beast, do you believe it to be a mark preventing buying and selling literally or iis it figurative?

God does change His mind via........CONDITIONS..........Although God knows all, He wants us to understand that REPENTANCE MATTERS, so even though He already knew that Nineveh would repent, he wanted to teach Jonah a lesson about forgiveness and repentance. God also taught Isaiah a lesson about mercy, of course, God knew Hezekiah would repent, and that He would accept that repentance, but He also knew it was probably going to take a Holy man of God giving them the final edict in order to make them repent.

So, God will repent at times, it says in Genesis it REPENTED God that he had slain all mankind on earth via the flood. That means it bothered him, he didn't want to ever do that again. So, God did indeed foreknow what they would do, we know that, but God had to sent an ultimate edict unto them to get their attention it seems.

So, you are both correct in a sense. Gods heart can change if we REPENT, of course, and God already knows the beginning from the end, so it's hard to say God CHANGED His mind, but in essence, He is telling us, our ACTIONS CAUSE God to change His mind about us when we REPENT and accept the Sacrifice of Jesus.

I think both of you are arguing over a nonpoint, to be honest.

No one believes that.

God does change His mind via........CONDITIONS..........Although God knows all, He wants us to understand that REPENTANCE MATTERS, so even though He already knew that Nineveh would repent, he wanted to teach Jonah a lesson about forgiveness and repentance. God also taught Isaiah a lesson about mercy, of course, God knew Hezekiah would repent, and that He would accept that repentance, but He also knew it was probably going to take a Holy man of God giving them the final edict in order to make them repent.

So, God will repent at times, it says in Genesis it REPENTED God that he had slain all mankind on earth via the flood. That means it bothered him, he didn't want to ever do that again. So, God did indeed foreknow what they would do, we know that, but God had to sent an ultimate edict unto them to get their attention it seems.

So, you are both correct in a sense. Gods heart can change if we REPENT, of course, and God already knows the beginning from the end, so it's hard to say God CHANGED His mind, but in essence, He is telling us, our ACTIONS CAUSE God to change His mind about us when we REPENT and accept the Sacrifice of Jesus.

I think both of you are arguing over a nonpoint, to be honest.

I just realized I mis-understood what ewq1938 was saying at the beginning of Post #226. and this was the reason I responded to Post #226 in a harsh way. I apologize for my misunderstanding of what you meant ewq1938.

Can some of the brethren here help me unlock a few things:

Revelation 17:9-12
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

1. Who are the seven kings?

2. Who is the beast that was and is not? My guess would be something related to the Roman Empire as previously in the chapter it talks about purple and scarlet and being drunk with the blood of the saints and cup of abominations, all fit the Catholic Church.

3. Rome is called the city on seven hills so I am confident the mountains refer to that. I have heard some say Jerusalem is also called that, but I find Rome to be more likely as John is writing in code to avoid further Roman persecution I believe. It also says the city runs the kingdoms of the earth, that much more aligns with Vatican city where all the world leaders meet the Pope all the time and they are actively involved. Jerusalem doesn't really run things right now.

The beast is not a man, but a fallen angel who is currently in the Abyss. The man of lawlessness/antichrist who is to come, is a man. When the beast comes up out of the Abyss, he will be the spiritual power behind the antichrist. The antichrist will be the one who establishes the seven year covenant with Israel in part and when the beast comes up out of the Abyss, he will at that time be the power behind the antichrist which is when he will cause the offerings and sacrifices to cease and the abomination to be set up. One will be a literal man and the other a fallen angel out of the Abyss, who will be the power behind the antichrist.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

The Beast and the False Prophet are men.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

The Beast and the False Prophet are men.

The FP beast is a man but the ten horned 7 headed beast is a ten kingdom empire. The FP is the ruler of that empire. It's kind of like the United nations being this big organization of most countries and then let's say one day a man is elected to be President or ruler over it all. That's what the beast and FP beast are like.

That is correct! I agree with you. However, you have to understand that the beast who comes up out of the Abyss, who is a fallen angel, will be the power behind the antichrist. So there are two elements here. The antichrist who will make the covenant with many for that seven year period who will be a literal man. But when that 5th trumpet is sounded, that angel/beast will come up out of the Abyss, will be the principality behind the antichrist.

"They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek it is Apollyon"

"When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction."

How can the beast be a man, when he is referred to as an angel and is coming up out of the Abyss?