There Will Be No Future Millennium On This Earth, A False Teaching Of Man

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Truth7t7

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#1
May 19, 2020
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#1
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#2
#2
Truth7t7 said:
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Click to expand...
I tend to lean amillenial myself. Not that I claim to be an authority. I really don't understand eschatology too much.
It's kind of interesting that a major view before ww1 was post millennialism, then after the war premillennialism really took off.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Blackpowderduelist said:
I tend to lean amillenial myself. Not that I claim to be an authority. I really don't understand eschatology too much.
It's kind of interesting that a major view before ww1 was post millennialism, then after the war premillennialism really took off.
Click to expand...
[quoting] "George N. H. Peters [1825-1909] was an American Lutheran minister and author of The Theocratic Kingdom [published in 1884]. His premillennial views were in conflict with the majority of Lutherans who held amillennial beliefs." [end quoting]


So as far as your comment about "timing" (of "what" ppl believed "when"), I guess it all depends on who you talk to.

And I'm quite sure "G.N.H. Peters" was not the first "pre-mill" ;):D




[caveat: I disagree with his "partial-rapture theory"... but he's correct in his "pre-mill" viewpoint]
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ [and] "Nathaniel West (1826–1906), Presbyterian premillennialist and Bible conference leader, [who wrote]... The Thousand Years in Both Testaments (1889), won many to premillennial eschatological views in the late nineteenth century." [end quoting]



[yeah... I'm sure there've been many before WWI...]
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#5
#5
Truth7t7 said:
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Click to expand...
You are right that the endgame is not a physical one but the irony of the whole thing is that those who are looking for a physical graduation will get one. In other words they will not see God, because God is a Spirit. Their dreams and aspirations will come true in a very dark place. (That place will have weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, something that we know very much about in this here physical world)
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ Okay, another member who believes Jesus is not God...


[Job 19:25-27 - "25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day [H314] upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."]
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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In 1726, William Lowth [published] PROPHESY and COMMENTARY DANIEL and the 12 MINOR PROPHETS... and in his commentaries, he DISTINGUISHED between "Israel" and "the Church"

... which is not the same as those who (even today) "embrace certain aspects of Covenant Theology (especially certain eschatological views) that deny a future to national Israel"



;)
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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"Forty Reasons for NOT Re-interpreting the OT By the NT: the Last Twenty" - by Paul Martin Henebury -

Forty Reasons for Not Reinterpreting the OT by the NT: The Last Twenty | SHARPER IRON

[quoting excerpt]

33. It ignores the life-setting of the disciples’ question in Acts 1:6 in the context of their already having had forty days teaching about the very thing they asked about (“the kingdom” – see Acts 1:3). This reflects badly on the clarity of the Risen Lord’s teaching about the kingdom. But the tenacity with which these disciples still clung to literal fulfillments would also prove the validity of #’s 23, 26, 27, 28 & 32 above.

34. This resistance to the clear expectation of the disciples also ignores the question of the disciples, which was about the timing of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, not its nature.

[end quoting]



...and further...

"... The First Twenty" - Forty Reasons for Not Reinterpreting the OT by the NT: The First Twenty | SHARPER IRON


____________

"Spiritualization" by Paul Martin Henebury - [17mins]

Biblical Interpretation Series - Spiritualization by Paul Martin Henebury, PhD - YouTube
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Truth7t7 said:
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Click to expand...
I agree that the thousand year reign is in the heavenly kingdom I think a lot of people miss that when Christ was taken into heaven the kingdom is established in heaven , and the earth is filled with Satan and his minions to go to war with man . And those who overcome the world through Christ , then have thier spirits saved into the heavenly kingdom and await the second resurrection at the end when Christ returns

I also agree the thousand years is not literal but should be viewed in this light

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods forebearance towards man allowing us time to repent and be saved is what’s measuring time a thousand years is not different from a day to God I think also it represents a measure of time that the saints would rule in the heavenly kingdom with Christ until his return to earth

some folks can’t acknowledge that there is a heavenly kingdom established since Christ was taken into heaven or that Satans presence has filled the earth. I think the reign probably includes these folks who were resurrected with Christ they must be somewhere now ? I’d say thier probably part of the heavenly reign in Zion

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭

I would imagine this is a glimpse into the resurrection noted as the first but it’s only My own thought or opinion I think the latter church is waiting for Christ to return to earth for that resurrection of both the good and wicked. But thier soirits I believe to be in heaven

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think the first fruits in heaven are of the first resurrection and are reigning in the kingdom of heaven now it stands to reckon because they rose from the dead just after Jesus did

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders:

and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭

because revelations visions overlap so often we don’t connect them

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:2-3‬ ‭

“And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭9:1-2, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4, 7‬ ‭

revelation is made of many overlapping visions to give a comprehensive understanding of unseen heavenly events a look into the kingdom of heaven and how the earth is affected by it but the visions aren’t chronological they repetitively overlap to offer revelation that is otherwise unattainable because there’s no other biblical text showing the kingdom being established in heaven or really anything that happened after Jesus was taken out of the earths sight into heaven revelation shows us

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬ ‭

he was , then was bound , and would yet come if we look at revelation as it presents itself it makes a big difference from approaching it as we already see it from an earthly perspective

a very thought provoking and thoroughly presented post thanks for taking the time
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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Pilgrimshope said:
I think the first fruits in heaven are of the first resurrection and are reigning in the kingdom of heaven now it stands to reckon because they rose from the dead just after Jesus did

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to "get clarity" on the point you are making... are you saying you believe that the "many bodies of the saints which slept arose" (Matt27; approx 32ad) are/were the "144,000" (Rev7 / Rev14)?




[for the readers: *my* view is that Rev14:4 (re: the 144,000) corresponds with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23, that of v.17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"...]
 
FlyingDove

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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Truth7t7 said:
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Click to expand...
1st: God's land promise (Gen 12:1, 13:15, 15:18-21) to Abraham is yet, to be fulfilled.

When were the following Isa 11 & Zec 14, Dan 7 fulfilled?

Isa 11:
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
(NOTE: Jesse was David's father & Christ comes thru this lineage)

4 with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 (A) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
(NOTE: At Christ's return, when his feet touch the Mt, resurrected saints are with him Zec 14:5, Jude 14,1 Thes 3:13)

14:9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
(NOTE: King on/over all the earth)

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

When has EVERY NATION been required to travel to Jerusalem to worship the King Jesus, the LORD of hosts?

Dan 7:
13 (B) one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

When have ALL people, nations & languages, should serve King Jesus?

Additional scripture support:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(NOTE: Heaven will receive Jesus ""UNTIL"" the restitution of all things. This is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact.

Matt 19:
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: The regeneration is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact, helping Christ reign)

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Mk 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(NOTE: After the tribulation)

Rev 20:6 & 7, we are given the timeframe of 1000 years. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
(NOTE: The Jewish remnant & other believers alive at Jesus 2nd coming. Still in their Adamic/sinful nature will under Christs peaceful/no war rule, quickly repopulate earth. After 1000 yrs satan will be loosed & like us today, they will have a choice to make.)
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#12
May 19, 2020
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#12
FlyingDove said:
1st: God's land promise (Gen 12:1, 13:15, 15:18-21) to Abraham is yet, to be fulfilled.

When were the following Isa 11 & Zec 14, Dan 7 fulfilled?

Isa 11:
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
(NOTE: Jesse was David's father & Christ comes thru this lineage)

4 with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 (A) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
(NOTE: At Christ's return, when his feet touch the Mt, resurrected saints are with him Zec 14:5, Jude 14,1 Thes 3:13)

14:9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
(NOTE: King on/over all the earth)

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

When has EVERY NATION been required to travel to Jerusalem to worship the King Jesus, the LORD of hosts?

Dan 7:
13 (B) one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

When have ALL people, nations & languages, should serve King Jesus?

Additional scripture support:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(NOTE: Heaven will receive Jesus ""UNTIL"" the restitution of all things. This is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact.

Matt 19:
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: The regeneration is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact, helping Christ reign)

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Mk 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(NOTE: After the tribulation)

Rev 20:6 & 7, we are given the timeframe of 1000 years. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
(NOTE: The Jewish remnant & other believers alive at Jesus 2nd coming. Still in their Adamic/sinful nature will under Christs peaceful/no war rule, quickly repopulate earth. After 1000 yrs satan will be loosed & like us today, they will have a choice to make.)
Click to expand...
Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The (Eternal Kingdom) "After" The Day Of The Lord In Fire And Final Judgement, The River Of Life Is Present

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#13
#13
TheDivineWatermark said:
^ Okay, another member who believes Jesus is not God...


[Job 19:25-27 - "25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day [H314] upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."]
Click to expand...
Pilgrimshope said:
I agree that the thousand year reign is in the heavenly kingdom I think a lot of people miss that when Christ was taken into heaven the kingdom is established in heaven , and the earth is filled with Satan and his minions to go to war with man . And those who overcome the world through Christ , then have thier spirits saved into the heavenly kingdom and await the second resurrection at the end when Christ returns

I also agree the thousand years is not literal but should be viewed in this light

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods forebearance towards man allowing us time to repent and be saved is what’s measuring time a thousand years is not different from a day to God I think also it represents a measure of time that the saints would rule in the heavenly kingdom with Christ until his return to earth

some folks can’t acknowledge that there is a heavenly kingdom established since Christ was taken into heaven or that Satans presence has filled the earth. I think the reign probably includes these folks who were resurrected with Christ they must be somewhere now ? I’d say thier probably part of the heavenly reign in Zion

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭

I would imagine this is a glimpse into the resurrection noted as the first but it’s only My own thought or opinion I think the latter church is waiting for Christ to return to earth for that resurrection of both the good and wicked. But thier soirits I believe to be in heaven

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think the first fruits in heaven are of the first resurrection and are reigning in the kingdom of heaven now it stands to reckon because they rose from the dead just after Jesus did

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders:

and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭

because revelations visions overlap so often we don’t connect them

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:2-3‬ ‭

“And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭9:1-2, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4, 7‬ ‭

revelation is made of many overlapping visions to give a comprehensive understanding of unseen heavenly events a look into the kingdom of heaven and how the earth is affected by it but the visions aren’t chronological they repetitively overlap to offer revelation that is otherwise unattainable because there’s no other biblical text showing the kingdom being established in heaven or really anything that happened after Jesus was taken out of the earths sight into heaven revelation shows us

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬ ‭

he was , then was bound , and would yet come if we look at revelation as it presents itself it makes a big difference from approaching it as we already see it from an earthly perspective

a very thought provoking and thoroughly presented post thanks for taking the time
Click to expand...
Your approach to Revelation is sound. The book of Revelation is of the Spiritual realm and is not sequential. A very important point to note is that in the heavenly kingdom time does not exist. We do not understand this concept as humans but it is true. God sees the beginning at the same time as He sees the end. This is the nature or disposition of the heavenly realm. Thus seeing things from an earthly (time oriented) perspective is the opposite of seeing them from a spiritual or heavenly perspective as John was in the Spirit in heaven when he reported what he saw.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#14
May 19, 2020
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#14
Blackpowderduelist said:
I tend to lean amillenial myself. Not that I claim to be an authority. I really don't understand eschatology too much.
It's kind of interesting that a major view before ww1 was post millennialism, then after the war premillennialism really took off.
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The fact is powder, the whole concept of Millennialism is built on Rev 20:1-6 and the words (thousand years)

As has been clearly shown, no earthly Kingdom or mortal humans are seen so what do the Millennialist do next?

They run you to Isaiah 11 & 65, also Zechariah 14 and they claim this is a description of their Millennial Kingdom (False)

The chapters in Isaiah & Zechariah are the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven and Earth

Just as dispensationalism uses the second coming and they claim a pre-trib rapture (A Lie)

Millennialist take the (Eternal Kingdom) seen in the Old Testament, and claim it's a Millennial Kingdom On This Earth (A Lie)

(Beware)!

Many Millennialist teach Jesus is going to return to earth, starting his Millennial rule from Jerusalem, taking a throne of David, amongst mortal humans?

This will be the future Antichrist (Beware) Millennualism is paving the way for this future (Man of Sin)
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#15
Aug 3, 2018
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#15
Truth7t7 said:
The fact is powder, the whole concept of Millennialism is built on Rev 20:1-6 and the words (thousand years)
Click to expand...
Not so:

--Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-slot)

CORRESPONDS WITH

--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-22[23]...


(and in THAT Isaiah text, it CLEARLY SHOWS a "TIME-PERIOD" which INTERVENES between the FIRST "PUNISH" word and the SECOND "PUNISH" word, in that text... exactly how Rev19-20 shows there to be "A TIME-PERIOD" between the TWO points-in-time--that is, between His Second Coming to the earth point-in-time [i.e. Armageddon] and the *later* GWTj point-in-time)
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#16
Aug 3, 2018
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#16
pablocito said:
Your approach to Revelation is sound. The book of Revelation is of the Spiritual realm and is not sequential. A very important point to note is that in the heavenly kingdom time does not exist. We do not understand this concept as humans but it is true. God sees the beginning at the same time as He sees the end. This is the nature or disposition of the heavenly realm. Thus seeing things from an earthly (time oriented) perspective is the opposite of seeing them from a spiritual or heavenly perspective as John was in the Spirit in heaven when he reported what he saw.
Click to expand...
I must say that I fairly disagree with you due to the NUMEROUS "time-stamps" that our Lord provided throughout the text of "[The] Revelation"... some being much more readily apparent than others... So it would take A LOT to convince me otherwise... though it always sounds so "spiritual" the way others express it just as you have.





[and that is aside from the fact that "SEALS 1-6" are followed by "SEAL 7, and TRUMPETS 1-6" which is also then followed by "TRUMPET 7, and VIALS 1-7" (with "Trumpet 5 / 1st Woe unto the earth" being the MID-POINT of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period: 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1)]
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#17
May 19, 2020
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#17
FlyingDove said:
1st: God's land promise (Gen 12:1, 13:15, 15:18-21) to Abraham is yet, to be fulfilled.

When were the following Isa 11 & Zec 14, Dan 7 fulfilled?

Isa 11:
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
(NOTE: Jesse was David's father & Christ comes thru this lineage)

4 with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 (A) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
(NOTE: At Christ's return, when his feet touch the Mt, resurrected saints are with him Zec 14:5, Jude 14,1 Thes 3:13)

14:9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
(NOTE: King on/over all the earth)

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

When has EVERY NATION been required to travel to Jerusalem to worship the King Jesus, the LORD of hosts?

Dan 7:
13 (B) one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

When have ALL people, nations & languages, should serve King Jesus?

Additional scripture support:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(NOTE: Heaven will receive Jesus ""UNTIL"" the restitution of all things. This is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact.

Matt 19:
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: The regeneration is the time when resurrected believers will enjoy their promised heavenly inheritance (Eph 1:1, Col 3:24, Heb 9:15, 1 Pet 1:4). In their heavenly body with earthly soul intact, helping Christ reign)

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

Mk 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(NOTE: After the tribulation)

Rev 20:6 & 7, we are given the timeframe of 1000 years. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
(NOTE: The Jewish remnant & other believers alive at Jesus 2nd coming. Still in their Adamic/sinful nature will under Christs peaceful/no war rule, quickly repopulate earth. After 1000 yrs satan will be loosed & like us today, they will have a choice to make.)
Click to expand...
Isaiah 11 & Isaiah 65 represent the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Same Wolf, Lamb, Lion eating straw like the ox/bullock

The claim this represents a Millennial Kingdom on this Earth is (False)

The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth Below

Isaiah 11:6-7KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isaiah 65:17-19 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 65:17-19 And Revelation 21:1-5 Are the same reading, describing the same place in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, The (Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#18
May 19, 2020
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#18
Pilgrimshope said:
I agree that the thousand year reign is in the heavenly kingdom I think a lot of people miss that when Christ was taken into heaven the kingdom is established in heaven , and the earth is filled with Satan and his minions to go to war with man . And those who overcome the world through Christ , then have thier spirits saved into the heavenly kingdom and await the second resurrection at the end when Christ returns

I also agree the thousand years is not literal but should be viewed in this light

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods forebearance towards man allowing us time to repent and be saved is what’s measuring time a thousand years is not different from a day to God I think also it represents a measure of time that the saints would rule in the heavenly kingdom with Christ until his return to earth

some folks can’t acknowledge that there is a heavenly kingdom established since Christ was taken into heaven or that Satans presence has filled the earth. I think the reign probably includes these folks who were resurrected with Christ they must be somewhere now ? I’d say thier probably part of the heavenly reign in Zion

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭

I would imagine this is a glimpse into the resurrection noted as the first but it’s only My own thought or opinion I think the latter church is waiting for Christ to return to earth for that resurrection of both the good and wicked. But thier soirits I believe to be in heaven

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think the first fruits in heaven are of the first resurrection and are reigning in the kingdom of heaven now it stands to reckon because they rose from the dead just after Jesus did

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders:

and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭

because revelations visions overlap so often we don’t connect them

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:2-3‬ ‭

“And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭9:1-2, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4, 7‬ ‭

revelation is made of many overlapping visions to give a comprehensive understanding of unseen heavenly events a look into the kingdom of heaven and how the earth is affected by it but the visions aren’t chronological they repetitively overlap to offer revelation that is otherwise unattainable because there’s no other biblical text showing the kingdom being established in heaven or really anything that happened after Jesus was taken out of the earths sight into heaven revelation shows us

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬ ‭

he was , then was bound , and would yet come if we look at revelation as it presents itself it makes a big difference from approaching it as we already see it from an earthly perspective

a very thought provoking and thoroughly presented post thanks for taking the time
Click to expand...
We agree, the Non-Literal 1,000 years is taking place (Presently) in the Lord's spiritual realm of no time, as he rules presently from the right hand of the father, from the throne of David in his kingdom.

Those seen in Rev 20:1-6 are in this spiritual realm of no literal time, one day is a thousand years

There is one future time of the resurrection of "All" John 5:28-29, this takes place on the (Last Day) John 6:39-40

At this time (Two) resurrections will take place, (The First Resurrection) to eternal life, (The Second Resurrection) to eternal damnation (Second Death)

The righteous are blessed to be in this (First Resurrection) where the (Second Death) to the lake of fire has no power over them

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:6KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#19
May 19, 2020
7,685
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113
#19
TheDivineWatermark said:
[quoting] "George N. H. Peters [1825-1909] was an American Lutheran minister and author of The Theocratic Kingdom [published in 1884]. His premillennial views were in conflict with the majority of Lutherans who held amillennial beliefs." [end quoting]


So as far as your comment about "timing" (of "what" ppl believed "when"), I guess it all depends on who you talk to.

And I'm quite sure "G.N.H. Peters" was not the first "pre-mill" ;):D


[caveat: I disagree with his "partial-rapture theory"... but he's correct in his "pre-mill" viewpoint]
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John N Darby from 1850-1877 traveled the world promoting his pre-trib rapture, millennial kingdom on earth, he held 7 conferences in America and Canada during this time, and the Niagra Conference from 1875-1897 that followed, several ministers from "Many Denominations" fell prey to Darby's teachings

Wikipedia: Darby, born in London, made seven trips to North America between 1862 and 1877, throughout and after the Civil War. Many saw his message of Christ’s return as hope in a dark world. James Inglis published Darby’s ideas in his journal Waymarks in the Wilderness. Brothers Paul and Timothy Loizeaux, part of the Plymouth Brethren movement in the United States, also helped to distribute Darby’s interpretations of Scripture.

contribution was his promotion of dispensationalism and the secret rapture.


Cyrus Scofield. Public Domain https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ScofieldCI.jpg...

Darby greatly influenced a Presbyterian minister named Dr. James H. Brookes, who developed the Niagara Bible Conference that met every summer from 1875 to 1897. The Bible studies held there were devoured by many eager young students—one of which was Cyrus Ingerson Scofield. Even to this day, Scofield is famous for his Scofield Reference Bible, which has dispensationalist footnotes.

Scofield established the Philadelphia School of the Bible. Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer, a staff member, went on to become founder of Dallas Theological Seminary. He taught decades of theological students and pastors the dispensational point of view. One of those students was Hal Lindsey. His books, including The Late Great Planet Earth, declare that the physical nation of Israel is still God’s chosen people and the key to Bible prophecy.

These dispensational ideas have strongly influenced American foreign policy. They have lead to support for Israel largely based on the supposed blessing that such support will bring.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#20
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#20
Truth7t7 said:
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?
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You do not need any help since you are adamantly opposed to Christ's Millennium. Which means that you are in fact opposed to Christ.
 
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