Not By Works

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?

You Do Not Listen, do you ? ? ?


Yes, there are consequences:


1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (NIV)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
15 If it is burned up {SALVATION is not a work, it is a FREE GIFT, from GOD.}, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

There's a critically important point that all OSAS folks miss: The passage speaks of a man who builds upon the foundation of Jesus and has his work appraised...which means the work has to have been performed to completion.

Didn't Jesus speak of another kind of man who starts to build, BUT DOESN'T FINISH THE JOB?

The point of this passage is obviously that all Christians who "finish the course", "keep the faith", and "endure to the end", are going to make it, regardless if they were "A" or a "D" students.

However, a blind man can see that saints who withdraw their surrender to God's authority are "F" students who don't have "finish/keep/endure" in their vocabulary -- they are like no different than many unscrupulous contractors that start a job but run off without seeing it through, and this passage has nothing to do with them.

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?

There is nothing Satanic about OSAS. It is simply the belief of eternal security of which the Bible supports in many verses.

so, if failing to keep the Commands will disqualify one from salvation....

Um nope

you preach failure and reject the power of God to change his children into righteous people

DO REMEMBER YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU FINALLY FIND OUT OSAS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

Romans 9:16 (HCSB) 16 So then it does not depend on human will or effort but on God who shows mercy.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 3:28 (GWT)
28 We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

Just let Paul and James say what they mean and mean what they say, but to different group of believers.

Salvation has nothing to do with "conditional" as it is a free gift we are offered and blessed with and as undeserving as we all are, it's a gift given from the God of Love. You are so mixed up in my personal opinion about the whole salvation, Christ like living, etc.

The only Satanic doctrine being floated in this thread is the doctrine of "works" including following Mose's laws, living a sinless life, calling God's Work unsustainable, depending on one's self to keep, hold onto salvation. Calling those of us who actually believe God's Holy Spirit who resides in us and who SEALED us on the day of our salvation "satanic" is a pitiful action from someone claiming to be a brother in Christ

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?

There's a critically important point that all OSAS folks miss, and thus they wrongly divide God's Word regarding this passage: it clearly speaks of a man who builds upon the foundation of Jesus and has his work appraised...which means the work has to have been performed to completion.

DIDN'T JESUS SPEAK OF ANOTHER KIND OF MAN WHO STARTS TO BUILD, BUT DOESN'T FINISH THE JOB?

The point of this passage is obviously that all Christians who "finish the course", "keep the faith", and "endure to the end", are going to make it, regardless if they were "A" or a "D" students.

However, a blind man can see that saints who withdraw their surrender to God's authority are "F" students who don't have "finish/keep/endure" in their vocabulary -- they are no different than many unscrupulous contractors who start a job but run off without seeing it through, and this passage has nothing to do with them.

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?

the other man built on a foundation other than Christ, that’s why it fell .

I think you raise good point here. Jesus does speak of the need to “ count the cost” to be his disciple. For many this means a threat to their own life. In America this tends to not be as prevalent but as Christians we ought to be ready. And surely Jesus can strengthen us with boldness if such a day were to come.

I wasn't talking about the two men who each built and finished a house, the one on the rock and the other on sand. That's a lesson on being careful to make sure we are on the right foundation.

But, Jesus also taught about our need to "count the cost" before going all in with Him, so that we don't end up resentful and without affection for Him, as one who rushes into marriage but later on wants out: The tower builder must ensure he is willing and able to complete the work before commencing it; the plowman must ever continue to look ahead to keep the plow straight; Paul said he "finished the course" and "kept the faith"; Jesus said the saints must "endure to the end".

There's simply no other way to understand these texts but to say they are all evidence that we can being with Jesus and build on His foundation but not finish with Him, and ignoring them in order to establish OSAS is not an option.

Amen to that, darlin! We have it so easy in the West that we can easily forget just how grave a commitment it can be to follow Jesus. In our Sabbath School Quarterly, there are plenty of examples of our church members around the world where they suffer extreme persecution for turning their back on popularly accepted customs and following Jesus, from the remotest African villages, the Muslim world, communist places like China and N. Korea, even in Israel. In some cases, Satan stirs up the locals with fear that the practice of Christianity will anger the "gods" resulting in socioeconomic or agricultural disaster, and it is there that faith seems to be the purest and most unbreakable. Are we really that blessed to live in the West? LOL

John says obedience is the evidence of success and acceptance of the power of God to change us, and the absence of obedience is proof one is a lying child of the devil (John 2:3-4 KJV)

(...but, if I may borrow a bit from Tyndale's response to Catholic theologian Sir Thomas Moore: )

Nay, John! Go to Master Eternally-Gratefull and learn a new way! We be not liars who know not Jesus if we refuse to keep God's commandments, and if we strive to keep such, we show forth evidence that we are lost!

Words mean things. "Unconditional" means "without condition". Unless salvation is available to all without condition, then it is conditional.