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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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There's a critically important point that all OSAS folks miss, and thus they wrongly divide God's Word regarding this passage: it clearly speaks of a man who builds upon the foundation of Jesus and has his work appraised...which means the work has to have been performed to completion.
DIDN'T JESUS SPEAK OF ANOTHER KIND OF MAN WHO STARTS TO BUILD, BUT DOESN'T FINISH THE JOB?
The point of this passage is obviously that all Christians who "finish the course", "keep the faith", and "endure to the end", are going to make it, regardless if they were "A" or a "D" students.
However, a blind man can see that saints who withdraw their surrender to God's authority are "F" students who don't have "finish/keep/endure" in their vocabulary -- they are no different than many unscrupulous contractors who start a job but run off without seeing it through, and this passage has nothing to do with them.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
You missed the whole point
it’s the FOUNDATION that matters,
the other man built on a foundation other than Christ, that’s why it fell,
which is why your buildingwill crumble. We build our’s on Christ, because we know his is firm and he will never fail.
Not a bad question. However, is the focus of a saved soul on himself and his own works, or is the focus on Christ and HIS work, and as a result of that one's works are done out of gratitude for what one has already freely received? See the difference in focus?
You can never compare the idea of doing works in order to get something with doing works because you have already been given something. Never.
I'm not saying OSAS folks are satanic...but that the idea that saints are going to be spared the same punishment for doing exactly what will condemn sinners wasn't inspired from above.
No, failing to keep God's commandments is a symptom -- withdrawing one's surrender to God's authority is the disease.
Both "surrender" and/or "withdrawal of surrender" are not outwardly performed works -- they are inward cognitive choice. Legalists wants outwardly performed works to merit salvation and Licensees want salvation without complete, total surrender; the two deadly satanic ditches which flank both sides of the Path of the Just.
John says obedience is the evidence of success and acceptance of the power of God to change us, and the absence of obedience is proof one is a lying child of the devil (John 2:3-4 KJV)
(...but, if I may borrow a bit from Tyndale's response to Catholic theologian Sir Thomas Moore: )
Nay, John! Go to Master Eternally-Gratefull and learn a new way! We be not liars who know not Jesus if we refuse to keep God's commandments, and if we strive to keep such, we show forth evidence that we are lost!
Amen! I wish the OSAS crowd would put away their fearfulness and come out in the open to see the NT is clearly dealing with both evils: License and Legalism, which would then lead them to discover that OSAS is an empty substitute for unconditional, permanent surrender to God, where we give all to Him because He gave all to us.
Words mean things. "Unconditional" means "without condition". Unless salvation is available to all without condition, then it is conditional.
Not sure who's preaching "works based salvation" here, but let me know so we can both set them straight
As for me, I preach salvation is on condition that our belief in God's Word leads to the surrender of our will, for if we believe without surrendering, we are no different than trembling devils.
Hi, 1 John 2:3-4 KJV and 1 John 5:2-3 KJV explicitly says we can tell we are true saints who love God and our neighbors if we are keeping His commandments, and then goes so far to say that those who claim to "know Him" as their Heavenly Father but break His law, are liars and the truth (Jesus) is not in them.
I think you raise good point here. Jesus does speak of the need to “ count the cost” to be his disciple. For many this means a threat to their own life. In America this tends to not be as prevalent but as Christians we ought to be ready. And surely Jesus can strengthen us with boldness if such a day were to come.
Under the revelation of Christ according to the mystery (Romans 16:25), you are saved by the works of Christ.
Incidentally, you are also saved by the faith OF Christ (Galatians 2:16)
So either way, it is neither your faith, nor your work, that saves you under Paul's gospel (Romans 16:25).
I wasn't talking about the two men who each built and finished a house, the one on the rock and the other on sand. That's a lesson on being careful to make sure we are on the right foundation.
But, Jesus also taught about our need to "count the cost" before going all in with Him, so that we don't end up resentful and without affection for Him, as one who rushes into marriage but later on wants out: The tower builder must ensure he is willing and able to complete the work before commencing it; the plowman must ever continue to look ahead to keep the plow straight; Paul said he "finished the course" and "kept the faith"; Jesus said the saints must "endure to the end".
There's simply no other way to understand these texts but to say they are all evidence that we can being with Jesus and build on His foundation but not finish with Him, and ignoring them in order to establish OSAS is not an option.
Amen to that, darlin! We have it so easy in the West that we can easily forget just how grave a commitment it can be to follow Jesus. In our Sabbath School Quarterly, there are plenty of examples of our church members around the world where they suffer extreme persecution for turning their back on popularly accepted customs and following Jesus, from the remotest African villages, the Muslim world, communist places like China and N. Korea, even in Israel. In some cases, Satan stirs up the locals with fear that the practice of Christianity will anger the "gods" resulting in socioeconomic or agricultural disaster, and it is there that faith seems to be the purest and most unbreakable. Are we really that blessed to live in the West? LOL
It may be helpful understanding salvation is more than just praying a sinner’s prayer. There needs to be a real trust/faith in Christ. Where pastors can get in trouble by counting hands raised or people going to the altar but that in and of itself does not show conversion. I believe in eternal security for the one who believes and receives Jesus.
There is persecution in the west too but does appear much less than other places. If faith can’t last through trials, what good is that kind of faith? Basically how I look at it.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
john also said whoever sins has never seen or known God, whoever is born of God can not sin (live like the world in sin)
but if I may borrow from Jesus himself, go to phonyman who pumps his chest praising God he is not like the sinners pointing his finger at EG, who Got on his knees unable to even look up and cried out for God to have mercy on a sinner like him,
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
There is no condition, unless you call recieving the gift freely given a condition.Words mean things. "Unconditional" means "without condition". Unless salvation is available to all without condition, then it is conditional.
a condition is a means in which one earns a reward, NT a way in which one recieves a gift, a gift is offered, it’s not the givers fault of the one he wants to give his gift to says no thank you,