When Roses Fight to Hold On to Their Thorns. (Why Do We Hang on to Pain?)

Hey Everyone,

The inspiration for this thread came from two sources:

First, I had a chat conversation yesterday with an old CC friend, and we were talking about high school cliques, acceptance, and what it meant to be "cool" back then vs. what's "cool" now.

One thing that amazes me about this friend is that they always seem have a pretty sure idea of who they are, where they stand, and where they fit, which is something I both slightly envy and can't imagine myself being at the same time. One of the reasons I chose the username "Seoulsearch" is because it represents my interest in who others are, along with my lifelong search of who God made me to be.

Self-identity and feelings of rejection have always been two of my sharpest thorns.

The second thing that got me thinking was an interview with a famous actress (Evanna Lynch, aka "Luna Lovegood" in a certain set of films,) who has long publicized her battles with eating disorders and actively tries to help young fans who write her for advice.

She was talking about her many years in therapy, and that a key component is to recognize when healing has taken place, and that it's time to move on from that issue altogether in order to tackle the next rather than cling on to old issues. I was thinking how profound this observation was, as it often seems to me, that even (and sometimes especially) within the church, the people with the most pain also get the most attention, which sometimes results in people clinging on to their pain. It's the only thing that's bringing them the nurturing and love they otherwise aren't receiving.

Now, please know that I am NOT in any way trying to belittle or dismiss those who are hurting -- we all have some kind of trauma and background pain.

But I was thinking about Ms. Lynch's statement that it is important to recognize when we are healed in one area, and then move on to the next.

The reason I was thinking about this is because I had a friend once who called me a Pain Magnet. They said that anyone within a 20-mile radius would find me and want to tell me all about their pain. Over the years, I came to observe that some people (not all, but some) will say they want help, but do they really? In today's culture, it almost seems fashionable to list your many traumas, and if someone has a "better" trauma story (one that gets more attention,) people will come up with something else to top it.

Again, I am not at all trying to say that people in pain do not want help and can't be healed. But I do know that some people seem to have made their pain into their own self-identity, and would, in a sense, feel lost without it.

* Why do we hold on to pain, even when God is sending us help, or a way out?

* Is there a way to convince people holding on to pain to want to let it go and start healing?

* Has pain become so much of a part of us that we are afraid to heal because we fear who we would be without it?

* How do we recognize when we are healed from something, and how do we move on from there?

One of the reasons I'm writing this thread is because lately, I've been asking God what things I've held on to that I falsely see as part of my self-identity, and what I have to do in order to let them go. Subsequently, I have been asking myself questions such as, "What would happen if I no longer felt rejected or feared rejection, and who would I?"

Why do you believe people sometimes want to hold on to their pain, and is there anything we can do to convince them (or ourselves) to do otherwise?

I’ve relied on the prince of peace to get me through any pain. Most anxiety and worry has gone away when casting our cares on Him. Feeling His presence near and focusing on being secured in Christ is such a freeing feeling. People can try to hurt you but knowing your value and worth in Him trumps it all.

One more thing I want to add... if needed...forgiveness. It’s not for them, it’s for you.

These are all really good points

I agree and have to say the thread is
Synchrony as there is an old wound that keeps popping up for about a week now and it stings. But if I understand both of you. The answer is
"Give it to God and Get Over it"
Very good advice indeed

I can relatent to this. When I was homeless I often would not allow other people to complain about their lives. If someone began complaining about something I'd chime in with "if you think that's bad..." and regale them with one of my own stories.
I remember doing this to my boss, even. She complained about her in-laws coming to visit and I shut her down and began telling her the recent events I had been through.
I told myself it was all about getting people to appreciate what they had and not make bigger deals out of smaller things. And to a point I was. But I also used my situation as a weapon. My pain is bigger than yours so you're not allowed to complain.
I remember her saying that she shouldn't complain about it, and by her words was saying the things I told myself I intended. But I could see on her face a more hurt look.
So while it wasn't an old pain, I was still clinging to it. ,

I started with depression at 13 (possibly earlier). By the time I was 18 I recall being afraid of not having that pain. One day I felt weird and realized I didn't feel depressed and panicked and tried to get depressed again.
Without it I had no identity.

Sub,

If I could give you and entire pageful of "Winner" emoji's for this, I certainly would.

THANK YOU for writing this amazingly raw and heartfelt post. It's as if you were reading my mind.

I have actually been going through almost the exact same thing -- I've been discovering a few days here and there... Where I am sometimes having a good day that's just as good as my depressed days feel down, and it's strange. Something feels different and I don't know why, but it seems partly good, and partly bad because it's also scary and unfamiliar.

It's also exactly like you said, because the whole experience is messing with what I thought was my understanding of who I am, and I keep asking God what I'm... turning into? And who this oddly different person is that He seems to be pushing me to be.

Thank you again for your post!

Best wishes to you!

Sub,

If you'd like to share and it's not too personal, may I asked what's help you recover from depression?

This is something so many of us struggle with, so hearing about people overcoming it can be life-changing.

No pressure at all to answer - feel free to decline, as I know it's a sensitive topic.

It's awesome to hear that you're doing better, and I found your post to be very inspiring.

No problems asking. I'm open about it.
Actually I'm not past it. I first noticed it at 13 years old, but noticed other, related issues as some of my youngest memories.

And now at 45 I still deal with it daily. And some days are better than others.
The thing that has been the biggest benefit is knowledge. What is depression? How does it affect me (and others)? What areas of my life is it affecting I never noticed? How might it affect those around me? And sharing with them what they can expect from me.
Knowing how it affects things can take a lot of pressure and guilt away. People with depression are very critical of themselves and I learned some of what I've put myself down for as character flaws have actually been depression. And in the past couple years I've discovered a lot and that's made things easier for me.

I find viewing depression as an external force affecting me also helps. By making it not that I'm broken, but rather something I can't control is broken, has made things easier, but I can still struggle with that on bad days.

So keeping yourself, and those around you, informed will do a lot to help. But expect it to be difficult. It's easy for those around us, even that understand, to forget or not realize some of what's going on isn't because you're bad or wrong. My own father sometimes seems to forget that, though I've tried to help him understand better. And he does, but as I said, sometimes it's easy to forget.

is this a spinoff from tourists 'pain management thread' ? I think hes doing quite well so far -even quitting smoking -yay!- although I tried to ask him what the pain even was. Because the thread had seemed like it was going for a few years....

Now some people might accuse me of not doing the hard yards or donkey work and try and burden me with their problems but I tell you I had years of it before so its not like I dont know what pain was like. But Ive healed and it doesnt bother me anymore, so why would I go on about something that doesnt bother me anymore I dunno.

I just told someone this evening I can just leave if you are going to NAG me and it will end up being MORE painful for you. she shut up about it and just got on with it. I wasnt going to help her if she was going to be a pain. some people want to always talk about how tough it is for them but news is EVERYONE goes through tough times. Just cos someone else apparently isnt doesnt mean they may not be in some other area that you dont know about cos you didnt share that pain with them.

I am very critical of myself and have high expectations of myself and others to do the right thing. Sometimes my body feels weighed down and numb... almost to the point where it’s hard to move. I don’t ever have suicidal thoughts, because I love life, but I do believe the past and a chemical imbalance haunts me at times. I turn to Jesus when this happens and most cases that helps me. Most days I feel very peaceful and blessed with what God has provided. I’ve never gotten diagnosed for depression and not really sure or scared that I should be taking medications for it (maybe natural remedies I guess).

There are some basic steps you can take to reduce depression. And one guy I knew made these lifestyle changes and got over his depression. Obviously not a major brain chemical issue for him, but it helped.

Thank you so much for posting this.
As life would have it I am struggling with something similar
It is a breath if air to hear your wisdom!! Again
Thank you

Happy it was able to benefit someone. 🙂

Hi, seoulsearch.

First of all, as an aside, I'd just like to say that your posts are always very well-written and articulate.

As far as your "lifelong search of who God made you to be" is concerned, my own search ended somewhere around 30 years ago.

In my particular case, up until that point in time, I wasn't being who God made me to be because I was too busy trying to be who I thought everyone else wanted me to be. In doing so, I lost my own identity and actually wound up hating myself because I wasn't being myself. I started a thread on my own search a little while back, and you can view it here if you're interested in doing so, assuming that you haven't seen it already:

https://christianchat.com/christian-poems-poetry/freedom-from-the-fear-of-man.197946/

As far as why some (not necessarily all) people like to hold on to their pain is concerned, well, I think that you already did a pretty good job of answering that question in your OP. Self-pity is something that people oftentimes hold on to because of the attention that it brings them. In reality, as Christians, we ought to be dead to ourselves and alive unto Christ, so there's really no room for self-pity. If we're truly dead unto ourselves, then it's pretty much impossible to get hurt...at least in the manner in which most people define "hurt" nowadays. In other words, if we're truly dead to ourselves and someone seeks to do us harm, then we won't take it personally. Instead, we'll view it through the eyes of Christ and see how they are really only hurting themselves. This, in turn, should cause us to grieve for them and pray for them.

The own liberation from caring about what others think of me came many years ago, and it's pretty much summed up in this one portion of scripture:

I Peter chapter 2

[19] For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
[20] For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
[23] Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
[24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
[25] For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

For starters, we need to have a "conscience toward God" and to not be focused upon OURSELVES.

Secondly, we need to recognize that, as Christians, we've actually been CALLED TO SUFFER WRONGFULLY, even as Christ is our example of the same.

Finally, we can only do so in the same exact manner in which Christ did himself:

By committing ourselves unto him who judges righteously or by looking up to get God's assessment of us in each and every situation.

I've had people accuse me of everything imaginable in my own life...even to the point of being hauled into a court of law for totally false charges. Whenever I'm accused of anything, the first thing that I do is look up unto God to get his assessment of the situation. If I'm guilty as charged, then I repent before both God and my accuser, seek forgiveness, and makes amends if possible. If I'm innocent of the charges, then I just move on while praying for my false accusers.

I used to suffer from such low self-esteem that I literally walked with my head looking down towards the ground until I was in my late twenties. Thankfully, those days are long gone.

That should have read "MY own liberation" and not "THE own liberation".

See, I can admit my mistakes..lol.

I dont remember that much of highschool to even go back there lol

It doesnt matter to me what other people think is 'cool'. If I think its cool, I just do it. eg. Its cool to be a librarian and if some people DONT think its cool then so what. I think its cool....lol

(actually the less people who think its cool the better cos it can get too noisy in the library if EVERYONE thinks its cool. )

apart from that, what about the prickly ppl in your life who are just a pain in the ....
and I can think of children the way they act out to receive attention. (adults should never just dismiss it as just wanting attention though) or maybe they just want some help but dont know how to ask for it, well theres this healing balm of gilead. Maybe some people just dont know how to apply it. a lot of people ask for healing but its the wrong type of healing or just a band aid or drug that numbs pain but actually that makes things worse cos then they get addicted to it.

if someone has to pay for YEARS of therapy then that therapist is basically ripping them off and using that pain as a supplement to THEIR holiday fund. Just like drug dealers may have this idea that they are doing people a service, uh..no.

God hasnt rejected me. He's adopted me. Hes healed me So I dont have to act like a pain and keep on crying to Him all the time. Hes taught me that yes sometimes I do suffer but its also made me stronger and give. me character to deal with trials.

I always believed that once a person starts to do things differently they are basically a new or different person, and from that they will receive different results from people, things and life itself.

An example of this is i have a friend who is always critical of others, he hurts others because others hurt him. What he fails to realize is that he is in an infinite cycle of planting,reaping and eating his harvest. He criticizes and hurts people because he perceives that they hurt him first (seeds/plants), and they respond in kind (reaping and eating his harvest) and the cycle just loops itself forever.

Instead of being one of those "in kind" people i do something unprecedented and give him something he doesn't really deserve according to what he has produced. What i give to him is light and positivity. I do this by telling him that when he makes mistakes that he is allowed to make them and by speaking words of encouragement instead of negative things that he is used to hearing to tear him down.

What has happened over time is he doesn't see me as an enemy, in fact he speaks highly and positive of me. So basically what im saying is what i have given away returns back to me through other people.

As for self identity i just see a persons identity as something that is based on how they react to things and how they treat others. To me basically i don't exist until im reacting to or treating someone or something, and who/ what i am isn't fully revealed until it returns full circle. So if i enter speaking light and positivity to someone and they respond with it back, there i am, and even if they don't i still am because im the one who produced it. It returning back to me is just evidence of who/ what i am and what i have produced if that makes any kind of sense.

The only way i can think of to convince someone to let go is to teach them how to project themselves to the world
rather than being reflected by things upon it. That entire process would require an entire identity shift that would
probably make some lose their minds lol. Some have a whole lot invested in who they think they are ya know and the concept
of losing one's self makes some people afraid because they have known nothing else.... I think only when a person is
truly tired of that identity then they can come into change.

regarding holding on to pain
and what we can do for people who do this

I got some insight into this reading this memoir called 'stop survivng, start fighting' by Jazz Thornton, who attempted suicide about 14 times but then stopped because she quit being labelled.

she had been self harming and cutting because creating crisises got her comfort and i suppose 'attention' and so she kept doing the same thing over and over again. its common amongst people showing borderline personality disorder and the root cause of it is abandonemnt or rejection (she had been rejected by her dad, and fostered, and ran away from her home when she was 16). what made the difference I supoose was her christian /church family speaking truth into her life. Then she got into mentoring this other girl that was suicidal as well when she hadnt done thealing process, and lost her. After that she made a film doco about her called 'Jessicas tree' and got suicidal people to write letters to themselves, starting with 'dear suicidal me' to convince themselves that they had overcome.

And the whole thing about pain is it can make people feel 'alive' rather than numb which I supoose is why people cut or use drugs to get high or out of it. so when people go to support groups for alcholism for example they go to meetings which mostly consist of them talking about how they got wasted. Then. they become the dry drunk or whatever as part of their identity. Nothing much changes they just hang out with their former drinking buddies and then talk about what a struggle it is NOT to drink.

Instead of you know, just living your life and not even caring about drinking at all.

But it never truly heals until they willing to acknowledge it isnt about themselves, its about God so willing to give up and surrender their lives and get the 'new wine' that God is going to pour into them with a brand new wineskin. but its true a lot of people prefer to keep their old wineskins even though its fit to burst. But see the old wont hold the new.

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


One thing we learn very quickly is that we all at one time or the other suffer. Just a cursory glance on the forums here and we can see this – from Pain caused by illness or an accident, anxiety, depression, grieving from the death of a loved one or the type of grief that can be suffered in divorces.

The question is how do we get through suffering without holding on, without becoming bitter, and without joy! The major thing that I learned and what helped me was by knowing that joy is not a feeling, it’s a knowing, Joy doesn’t come from my performance, Joy doesn’t come from the approval of others. - “Joy is not necessarily the absence of suffering, it is the presence of God (Sam Storms).” Joy is knowing that for those who love God all things work together for good. The all things include our sufferings.

Where do our minds dwell? where do we focus our attention in times of suffering? of our past hurts haunting us. Do we lean on our own understanding or do we lean on God’s -Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). This can be a key point to understand, since we know that Joy is not a feeling but Knowing God is in control in my suffering and that all things work together for good, because God is steadfast.

If you have been hurt through friends or family in the past looking back and dwelling on the issue will never help it is just a perpetual cycle of emotional pain bringing you down. We need to look forward not back, the enemy just wants you to relive your pain. - “Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old (Isaiah 43:18; cf. Philippians 3:13-14).

Letting go isn’t easy, as C.S Lewis said “Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward.” Give your hurts and pains to God, rest in Him, Trust in Him, Let his word be like a lamp to your feet as you walk through the valley. Pray to Him his promises to you, to keep you, to uphold you. Find your Joy in Him.

We may find that when it comes to illness we may have these lifelong or when we get older. That could be pain from something like Arthritis, Cancer, heart problems, back injuries, depression and the list can go on. in this life we will have illness and sickness.. but don’t forget we have a hope and that hope itself brings joy in that: He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away (Rev 21:4).

1 Peter 1:3-6

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


Regarding depression, One of the old preachers I like to read is Charles Spurgeon. From the time he came down with it until his death he suffered from episodes of deep depression and yet His Joy was in Christ and Christ only. Below is a helpful video from David Murray with clips from Christians with depression.