Where do we agree?

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Which steps would you support for the federal government to combat poverty in the US?

  • Provide every child with a bond.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#81
I would change this one to: Completely dismantle the private corporate prison system & overhaul the govt prison system.:)
I think govco is too stupid to run anything effectively, and corporations are to greedy. Dismantle and destroy the building and compounds, or turn them into shelters for the homeless.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Jan 3, 2021
287
74
28
56
#82
So you are advocating for a Mosiac law theocracy? Or a Kingship where 95% of the Kings turned into wicked tyrants?
No, I'm not advocating for the US to become a theocracy. I'm simply reminding you that the Old Testament demanded it, and you pretended it didn't.

Personally, I'm not sure if I want to live in a theocracy or not. It's an interesting question.

But the US can never become one, because of that pesky freedom of religion clause, so it's a moot point.

What is your agenda?
Well, tomorrow I do Distance Learning with my son until about noon, and then I head into work. I have a full day of appointments, and should be heading home around 9 or 10.

What's yours?
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Jan 3, 2021
287
74
28
56
#83
Our police need some serious training. To start with.
You don't use force against someone not resisting.
If they are resisting use force until they are not, then stop using force. Generally speaking.
Amen to that, brother.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#84
Relating to number 5, the key word is promote. Understand it, and we can find the role of the government in the welfare of the people.
Which brings us back to totally shutting down the border with Mexico until Mexico does something about the serious issues at the border, particularly drugs, gangsters, and illegals.

Drug Overdose Deaths at Record High, Mexican Cartels Stronger Than Ever: DEA

Fentanyl is produced in “foreign clandestine laboratories” and trafficked into the United States in powder and pill form, the DEA report states. The big killer is counterfeit pills, known as “Mexican oxys,” which contain fentanyl and are made to look like blue Oxycodone prescription pain pills.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/drug-...n-cartels-stronger-than-ever-dea_3719950.html

Biden has thrown open the border as wide as possible, which means that he is directly responsible for these deaths.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,293
6,667
113
#85
I find it interesting that 6 things were cited as the reasons for the constitution.


1. form a more perfect Union,
2. establish Justice,
3. insure domestic Tranquility,
4. provide for the common defence,
5. promote the general Welfare,
6. secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

Relating to number 5, the key word is promote. Understand it, and we can find the role of the government in the welfare of the people.

here is where so many get it so wrong- the government has no role in the general welfare of people.

the role of the federal and state government is to keep the borders secure and collect taxes to build infrastructure.

local city and county gov. can pass and enforce laws and ordinances.

that is all gov. is supposed to be , and nothing more.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#86
Police need to be trained in the constitution, particularly the first 10 amendments; we know that as the bill of rights. The second thing they must be trained in is how to subdue a combatant quickly. Hand to hand combat. To end a conflict quickly. I was watching videos from around the world and I watched one cop subdue three combatant criminals on the street without back up in about half a second. When backup came they put them in the cars and hauled them off. He didn't use a tazer or a gun or a stick. He used what looked like a martial art technique. He handled them so quickly they just laid on the ground and didn't dare try to get up. The proper application of force.
People also need to learn to be grateful when a trash bag is removed from their midst.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,846
4,503
113
#87
No, I'm not advocating for the US to become a theocracy. I'm simply reminding you that the Old Testament demanded it, and you pretended it didn't.

Personally, I'm not sure if I want to live in a theocracy or not. It's an interesting question.

But the US can never become one, because of that pesky freedom of religion clause, so it's a moot point.


Well, tomorrow I do Distance Learning with my son until about noon, and then I head into work. I have a full day of appointments, and should be heading home around 9 or 10.

What's yours?
I'm simply reminding you that the Old Testament demanded it, and you pretended it didn't.
God commanded it within a theocracy. God also said this if a man became poor, he would need to sell himself to a wealthier family who would employ him as a hired servant, he could redeem himself out of his servitude once he got his finances in order, or when the Year of Jubilee (Leviticus 25:10).

Let us remember the different types of government and the Biblical example of human corruption that would ultimately lead to tyrant rule. They traded God as King for man as king.

Either way, it was God who allowed it. The governments we see today we're set up by God, for differing roles within the war and God's will.

Our current government has over 100 different agencies directed to helping the poor. Why do we still have a poverty problem? Money is no problem when they believe they can print more, or raise taxes.
 
D

DWR

Guest
#88
Consider this----
If they gave $1000 a month to 300,000,000 people that would be 300 billion dollars a month and 3.6 trillion dollars a year.
So where does that extra 3.6 trillion dollars come from?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,558
17,027
113
69
Tennessee
#89
.

Pretty soon, there would be no poverty, and people would not be looking for handouts instead of working and earning.
Working and earning is what it should all be about. The US has had a war on poverty for years and just like the war on drugs the governments cure is worse than the disease itself regardless of the cause.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#90
Working and earning is what it should all be about. The US has had a war on poverty for years and just like the war on drugs the governments cure is worse than the disease itself regardless of the cause.
Absolutely correct.

Why was the war on poverty a disaster? Because the same governments who wanted to give handouts to able-bodied people shipped all the good jobs and industries to China and the third world, and then opened the borders to a flood of foreign goods and foreigners (who took away jobs from citizens).

Why was the war on drugs a disaster? Because there was no effective wall along the southern border for almost 200 years, and the border with Mexico was never, ever shut down, until the drug issue (along with the illegal migrant issue) was fully resolved. Even the wall built by Trump is merely a fence, not another *Great Wall of China* (which is what was needed in an updated design).

The cartels tunnel under the border, and what was needed was the wall going at least 50 to 100 feet below the surface, and built to resist any explosive attacks. And at least 50 feet above the surface with a thickness of at least 20-30 feet of concrete. Monitored by drones 24/7.

American governments spent billions sending DEA agents into Mexico and Central America, when that was none of their business. But the flow of drugs continued, since the border and the ports were never shut down to traffic from Mexico, Cuba, and Latin America. If you want to turn off the flow of something, you shut off the flow. But that never happened in this case. Now Fentanyl is coming out of Mexico and killing hundreds, while everyone simply stands by and does nothing.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#91
Consider this---- If they gave $1000 a month to 300,000,000 people that would be 300 billion dollars a month and 3.6 trillion dollars a year. So where does that extra 3.6 trillion dollars come from?
If that same $1,000/month remained in the pockets of citizens because the income tax was slashed to 10% or less, then there would be no need for handouts.

According to usafacts.org the average American family paid $2,392 in federal income tax in 2018. If that tax had been slashed to $1,392, that extra $1,000 would remain in their pockets instead of coming as a handout.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#92
Why was the war on drugs a disaster? Because there was no effective wall along the southern border for almost 200 years, and the border with Mexico was never, ever shut down, until the drug issue (along with the illegal migrant issue) was fully resolved. Even the wall built by Trump is merely a fence, not another *Great Wall of China* (which is what was needed in an updated design).
The CIA also sold drugs to ghetto neighborhoods to raise funds for dark money projects. I agree with you that Mexico has a gigantic drug problem evidence by the fact that it's the most deadly conflicts that currently exists.

American governments spent billions sending DEA agents into Mexico and Central America, when that was none of their business. But the flow of drugs continued, since the border and the ports were never shut down to traffic from Mexico, Cuba, and Latin America. If you want to turn off the flow of something, you shut off the flow. But that never happened in this case. Now Fentanyl is coming out of Mexico and killing hundreds, while everyone simply stands by and does nothing.
It would be impossible and or economically not worth it to completely shut down the border. There has to be other solutions. A lot of it is a result of the instability caused by meddling of American Intelligence agencies in Central and South America, as well as an unwillingness to improve the economic situation in those countries. Drug production is more profitable than other industries by a wide margin. It would be easier to reduce drug production by producing a better economic environment for people reducing the power cartels have.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#93
Consider this----
If they gave $1000 a month to 300,000,000 people that would be 300 billion dollars a month and 3.6 trillion dollars a year.
So where does that extra 3.6 trillion dollars come from?
A 50% tax rate like in much of Europe.

 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#94
It would be impossible and or economically not worth it to completely shut down the border. There has to be other solutions.
Shut down completely UNTIL ISSUES ARE RESOLVED. That would happen very quickly since Mexico wants to keep trade going. Once a country knows that its neighbor is serious, they will take action.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#95
Working and earning is what it should all be about. The US has had a war on poverty for years and just like the war on drugs the governments cure is worse than the disease itself regardless of the cause.
The war on poverty failed because it subsidized poverty by reducing the willingness and or ability to improve one's situations. It also via programs such as the Great Society nuked the nuclear family in many minority communities. Single motherhood and broken homes in general is the single largest indicator of life outcomes in the life of a child.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#96
Shut down completely UNTIL ISSUES ARE RESOLVED. That would happen very quickly since Mexico wants to keep trade going. Once a country knows that its neighbor is serious, they will take action.
You would kill entire industries if you shut down the border with Mexico entirely.



 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#97
You would kill entire industries if you shut down the border with Mexico entirely.
And you would rather see Americans killed by (1) illegal drugs, (2) gangsters, and (3) criminals pouring through the borders? I don't think anyone has a real handle on the numbers involved, but it could well be in the hundreds of thousands.

Actually industries in the USA would thrive if all products from Mexico were barred altogether. This would mean that manufacturing plants and factories would have to be set up on US soil to hire US citizens, who would then earn an honest and good income. Jobs were shipped to Mexico to undermine American jobs and create more unemployment, homelessness, and crime. That should never have happened.

With a sealed border, the cartels would not be receiving millions (or billions) daily from the USA for all those drugs they have been shipping daily. At the same time, when the Mexican government realizes that the wealth from America is not flowing southward, they would be compelled to do something serious about the whole ugly scenario in Mexico. Those governments have been corrupted by the drug lords, only because the drug lords have extracted billions from Americans. When that cash flow begins to disappear, there could be a huge change in the way Mexico operates.

The real issue is having the guts to do something meaningful, instead of simply talking and threatening. Even the border states did not have to wait for federal action. Had they chosen to act and shut down illicit traffic through their sovereign territories, the Feds would have had to wake up and deal with the issue. Everyone has complained about a porous border, illegal immigrants, illegal drugs, gangsters, criminals, coyotes, etc. but no one has take serious action.

The other closely related issue is the existence of at least 20 million illegals in America right now. That has a huge impact on (a) the economy, (b) elections, (c) crime, (d) disease, and (f) cultural impact. Immigration laws have been flouted, which means that the rule of law has been destroyed, and a lawless country has been created just like that. Now those 20 million are going to increase by a few more million, and pretty soon America will become another third world country like Nicaragua or Guatemala. Is that what you wish to see? And that does not even address the entry of Islamist and other terrorists through the porous southern border,
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#98
And you would rather see Americans killed by (1) illegal drugs, (2) gangsters, and (3) criminals pouring through the borders? I don't think anyone has a real handle on the numbers involved, but it could well be in the hundreds of thousands.

Actually industries in the USA would thrive if all products from Mexico were barred altogether. This would mean that manufacturing plants and factories would have to be set up on US soil to hire US citizens, who would then earn an honest and good income. Jobs were shipped to Mexico to undermine American jobs and create more unemployment, homelessness, and crime. That should never have happened.

With a sealed border, the cartels would not be receiving millions (or billions) daily from the USA for all those drugs they have been shipping daily. At the same time, when the Mexican government realizes that the wealth from America is not flowing southward, they would be compelled to do something serious about the whole ugly scenario in Mexico. Those governments have been corrupted by the drug lords, only because the drug lords have extracted billions from Americans. When that cash flow begins to disappear, there could be a huge change in the way Mexico operates.

The real issue is having the guts to do something meaningful, instead of simply talking and threatening. Even the border states did not have to wait for federal action. Had they chosen to act and shut down illicit traffic through their sovereign territories, the Feds would have had to wake up and deal with the issue. Everyone has complained about a porous border, illegal immigrants, illegal drugs, gangsters, criminals, coyotes, etc. but no one has take serious action.

The other closely related issue is the existence of at least 20 million illegals in America right now. That has a huge impact on (a) the economy, (b) elections, (c) crime, (d) disease, and (f) cultural impact. Immigration laws have been flouted, which means that the rule of law has been destroyed, and a lawless country has been created just like that. Now those 20 million are going to increase by a few more million, and pretty soon America will become another third world country like Nicaragua or Guatemala. Is that what you wish to see? And that does not even address the entry of Islamist and other terrorists through the porous southern border,
 

inukubo

Active member
Jun 27, 2019
169
166
43
45
#99
There are a lot of issues that have significant bipartisan agreement.

Many here accuse me of being "liberal," but I'm curious if we can find some common ground in some of these issues? (I will probably end up posting several, but one at a time.)

I can also provide a source that shows how Americans voted on these according to a poll, if anyone is interest.
Why didn't you provide any conservative/libertarian solutions in your poll? I support none of these. The best government program is no government program.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
The best government program is no government program.
Correct. Governments have always gone beyond their mandates of maintaining law and order and national security (along with proper infrastructure). But anything beyond that is simply government overreach. Indeed one could shut down Washington, D.C. permanently, and lock up all the Leftist politicians, and the country would actually thrive.