Where do we agree?

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Which steps would you support for the federal government to combat poverty in the US?

  • Create a federal jobs program in the event of an economic downturn.

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit.

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Increase SNAP benefits (aka food stamps) but disallow use for sweetened sodas or candy.

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Make pre-kindergarten available to all 4-year-olds in low-income families.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Provide a universal basic income of $1,000 per month.

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Provide every child with a bond.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Raise the minimum wage to $9 per hour.

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • Total voters
    5
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#41
Oct 31, 2019
1,625
1,319
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#41
Blackpowderduelist said:
There are some people who are sociopaths, and they are cold blooded killers, now don't get me wrong I'm not for death penalty all willynilly .
But for cold blooded killers and anyone who uses a gun to commit a violent crime. By that way I mean rape Rob or murder someone at gunpoint.

If you want a gun control law that actually works, one simple law. All violent crimes committed at gun point are capitol crimes. And justice should be swift. Everyone gets three trials. One where they are tied by jury, one trial by professional forensic scientists.
And one strictly by the law. Of coarse that's reverse order.
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But then there is no opportunity for repentance and sometimes young people do terrible things because of bad experiences from childhood/drugs/ being led astray by older kids... and when they grow up to adulthood they may deeply regret what they did. It’s very difficult but Christ did die for us whilst we were yet sinners and I know I cannot cast the first stone, however, it goes without saying that such heinous crimes cannot go unpunished and there must be consequences.
I just wouldn’t want the death penalty in my country when I compare with the countries that have it. It’s heart-breaking to see people put to death because of something they did whilst on drugs when very young and surely it would be better for them to change and be born again. Very complex hmmm...
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#42
Sep 17, 2016
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#42
HillsboroMom said:
Okay, here are the countries that have lower rates of poverty than the US, in alphabetical order:
Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Czeck Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, and United Kingdom.

All of them have more centralized / socialist governments than the US.


That's a fair question.

You'd need to remove Belarus from that list. As for the rest, some have more individual protection than the US (like Switzerland), some have less (like Japan), but all the rest have laws that do protect some amount of individual liberty. Some are even more free than the US. So that's not an excuse.


This is not true.

I had a friend who used to say this. "There are thousands of homeless shelters. No one has to be homeless. They just don't want to get sober, because the shelters won't let you stay if you're drunk." But that is factually incorrect. I volunteered for a homeless shelter for a few months. There, I learned that the particular county in which I lived had 20,000 homeless people, and around 500 beds for homeless people. Some of those beds were restricted for families with children, or for women. So if you were a man without children, you were pretty much screwed. You don't have to be a math wizard to figure out that if there are 20,000 people and 500 beds, it doesn't matter how sober, drug-free, problem-free you are, not everyone is going to get a bed.

Let's talk about unemployment. Let's say I'm a single mom whose husband died in the war. Even if they raise minimum wage to $9/hour, that's $360/week. Daycare is $600/week. How can I afford to work? If I leave my kids without daycare, I go to jail. What options do I have? What "choice" do I have?

Sure, poverty is a choice. It's a choice wealthy Americans have made to keep the poor poor. It's a choice American voters have made not to fund programs that could truly raise people OUT of poverty instead of just giving them a subsistence and keeping them in the vicious cycle. It's a choice that was made FOR those in poverty, not by them.
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So back to Switzerland since you mentioned it.

As explained by Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen in 2015, countries like his Denmark “[are] far from [socialist planned economies].”

“Denmark is a market economy,” he added. And as demonstrated by Mises in Economic Policy: Thoughts for Today and Tomorrow, there’s “no western, capitalistic country in which the conditions of the masses have not improved in an unprecedented way.”

There are no government-imposed floors on labor in Sweden, Norway, or Denmark. Instead, minimum wages are decided by collective-bargaining agreements between unions and employers; they typically vary on an occupational or industrial basis.

Last year we are seeing the beginning of the attacks on free speech and freedom of religion.

Voters in Switzerland have approved a referendum to include so-called sexual orientation in the country's anti-discrimination statutes.

Hate speech has been mainly focused on attacking those of faith who support a man and woman marriage, or anti LGBT beliefs.

The country has seen a major decline from 1981 to 2018 in church attendance.

From 81% to 61%

The further the decline will lead to more corruption and sin. This leads to more government control while corruption leads the government to wasteful spending and hunger for power.

Their generous welfare system survives off the back of a strong free-market capitalist system. Here in the US, our liberal counterparts see the free market capitalist system as the problem. They want the cart but eliminate the horse to pull it. Add this with the rising debt that we are not even looking at the payoff, we are heading to economic collapse.

Federal social programs cannot survive under these conditions. We have seen the failure from many of the programs already. Government wastes, mismanages, are far from the people's true mindset, and easily corrupted.

Liberty may be dangerous and may include poverty our poverty rate is way better than what we see in Cuba, China, Russia, North Korea, or Venezuela. Many have lost much of their freedoms. These are the true end of socialism.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#43
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
#43
Roughsoul1991 said:
You are explaining variables. My list was simple and not all points would work for each individual. For example, remarrying out of love will bring financial support. Her example wasn't of a homeless family but a struggling family. Sometimes you may have to work hard to get what you need or want. By the way, apartments have many ways you grow food either indoors or making use of small outdoor areas. The first step is to get out of making the excuses mindset.

Every situation is different and everyone needs different amounts of help. One person may need a reality check while others may have done everything possible but still needs help.

I hear testimony after testimony of our grandparent generations who went through real poverty and how so many of them did not have the many programs we have today. But so many worked their butts off to get out of poverty. 3 kids, college, and working part-time. They were tough.

No answer to help but criticize the points made?

Of course, mankind will always have problems. Will always have poverty. Will always have the rich. Let me ask you a question. How does God view the rich? The poor? Was Jesus homeless? Who will be first and who will be last? Who often are the heroes of faith when you are in constant dependence on God?

Why is the church called to help the poor? Was does scripture never speak to the government for handling the poor?
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Sometimes ruling out options or theories brings us one step closer to the resolving the problem. I was just trying to give an objective response to your list since you took the time to make it.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#44
Sep 17, 2016
8,887
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#44
"Mystical references to 'society' and its programs to 'help' may warm the hearts of the gullible but what it really means is putting more power in the hands of bureaucrats." -Thomas Sowell
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#45
Sep 4, 2013
30,744
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#45
Why not just simplify everything?

Make EVERYTHING FREE!

If someone breaks the Law, kill 'em, OR elect them to Political Office.

:)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#46
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#46
Roughsoul1991 said:
Federal social programs cannot survive under these conditions.
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Governments were not meant to put into place *social programs*, since the motivation behind that is to buy votes. All able-bodies citizens must work and earn their living, as the Bible also makes very clear.

Governments were meant to ensure that citizens have (1) liberty, (2) peace, and (3) security to go about their daily business. However, ever since the time that Barack Hussein Obama came on the scene, all three branches of the federal government have been thoroughly corrupted. Donald Trump tried to reverse the trend, but failed to remove all the Deep State operatives (which he could have done, and should have done). The final straw was the blatant theft of the presidential election in 2020.

And now, since Obama is the puppet-master behind senile and mentally failing Joe Biden, Obama's dream of destroying America and establishing Communism and Black Racism has come to pass. And that is exactly why the first and second amendments have been trashed, as have the Constitution and the rule of law. This is all leading to the reign of the Antichrist.
 
H

HillsboroMom

Active member
#47
Jan 3, 2021
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#47
Nehemiah6 said:
Governments were not meant to put into place *social programs*, since the motivation behind that is to buy votes.
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That is your opinion. It is no more or less valid than any other opinion.

All able-bodies citizens must work and earn their living, as the Bible also makes very clear.
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So, do you agree that banks should stop giving out interest, and capital gains, and other income that is gained through no work?

Do you agree that inheritances should be dissolved upon the death of the deceased, and distributed equally to all members of the society, rather than going to one family. After all, people should WORK for their money, not just inherit it.

Or do you just mean poor people should work, and rich people can continue to take advantage of the work of other people?

That's what I thought.

Governments were meant to ensure that citizens have (1) liberty, (2) peace, and (3) security to go about their daily business.
Click to expand...
In your opinion. That opinion is no more or less valid than any other opinion.

However, ever since the time that Barack Hussein Obama came on the scene, all three branches of the federal government have been thoroughly corrupted.
Click to expand...
Oh, honey, really? You honestly believe that? Were you born in 2008?

The government has been corrupt FAR longer than that. Do yourself a favor. Read some history. You don't even have to go that far back. Bush, Jr. Clinton. Bush, Sr. Reagan. NIXON FOR HERA'S SAKE?!?!?!?!? You think it started with Obama? Sorry, I can't believe anyone is that stupid.

Donald Trump tried to reverse the trend,
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That's like saying the cat tried to feed cheese to the mice. Trump was corrupt from the get-go. If you don't see it you're blind.

Obama's dream of destroying America and establishing Communism and Black Racism....
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There it is. I was wondering how long it would take for your true "color" to show.

Disgusting.

Jesus would spit in your face if he were here.

And he will some day.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#48
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
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#48
HillsboroMom said:
That is your opinion. It is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


So, do you agree that banks should stop giving out interest, and capital gains, and other income that is gained through no work?

Do you agree that inheritances should be dissolved upon the death of the deceased, and distributed equally to all members of the society, rather than going to one family. After all, people should WORK for their money, not just inherit it.

Or do you just mean poor people should work, and rich people can continue to take advantage of the work of other people?

That's what I thought.


In your opinion. That opinion is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


Oh, honey, really? You honestly believe that? Were you born in 2008?

The government has been corrupt FAR longer than that. Do yourself a favor. Read some history. You don't even have to go that far back. Bush, Jr. Clinton. Bush, Sr. Reagan. NIXON FOR HERA'S SAKE?!?!?!?!? You think it started with Obama? Sorry, I can't believe anyone is that stupid.


That's like saying the cat tried to feed cheese to the mice. Trump was corrupt from the get-go. If you don't see it you're blind.


There it is. I was wondering how long it would take for your true "color" to show.

Disgusting.

Jesus would spit in your face if he were here.

And he will some day.
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so, america should be communist and black racism is good?

what is disgusting?

all communism is bad and all racism is bad.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#49
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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#49
gb9 said:
so, america should be communist and black racism is good?

what is disgusting?

all communism is bad and all racism is bad.
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Look at the job the education establishment, the media, and entertainment industry has done on these indoctrinated sheep!

They are so ignorant, that they literally have no clue of the misery, evil and death that Socialism/ Communism has wrought on countless millions in the last 100 yrs.

THAT, is what is disgusting.
 
D

DWR

Guest
#50
#50
HillsboroMom said:
There are a lot of issues that have significant bipartisan agreement.

Many here accuse me of being "liberal," but I'm curious if we can find some common ground in some of these issues? (I will probably end up posting several, but one at a time.)

I can also provide a source that shows how Americans voted on these according to a poll, if anyone is interest.
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After reading all your statements on this subject, there is no doubt that you are "liberal".
I would even say you are on the level of The far left that now is trying to impose there agenda on all of us.
The only "common ground" you are seeking is for all to agree or be labeled racist or a domestic terrorist.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#51
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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#51
I guess I'm an old man and so I have the way things were to remember and these things modern to compare it to. In the old days people would gather up wood and build a house on land they bought and everything was fairly easy to get without making any loans. After about the 60's they began to make those things difficult to get without loans. Now everyone's trapped in loans and worried about their credit score. I never used their credit/usury but I guess it does effect me also.

I tried once to rent an apartment so we could remodel the kitchen/living-room but was told I didn't have bad credit but I had no credit so I would be charged more. I don't drive much nowadays but the last time I had auto insurance I was told my rates were based on my credit score. I told them it wasn't permitted to use usury(old days) and that they were telling me I would be charged more because of my religious beliefs but they didn't care. Anyway it seems they have used the bible as a script and have reversed everything God said do or don't do and made it seem normal so now everyone's debating what they should do next.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#52
#52
HillsboroMom said:
That is your opinion. It is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


So, do you agree that banks should stop giving out interest, and capital gains, and other income that is gained through no work?

Do you agree that inheritances should be dissolved upon the death of the deceased, and distributed equally to all members of the society, rather than going to one family. After all, people should WORK for their money, not just inherit it.

Or do you just mean poor people should work, and rich people can continue to take advantage of the work of other people?

That's what I thought.


In your opinion. That opinion is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


Oh, honey, really? You honestly believe that? Were you born in 2008?

The government has been corrupt FAR longer than that. Do yourself a favor. Read some history. You don't even have to go that far back. Bush, Jr. Clinton. Bush, Sr. Reagan. NIXON FOR HERA'S SAKE?!?!?!?!? You think it started with Obama? Sorry, I can't believe anyone is that stupid.


That's like saying the cat tried to feed cheese to the mice. Trump was corrupt from the get-go. If you don't see it you're blind.


There it is. I was wondering how long it would take for your true "color" to show.

Disgusting.

Jesus would spit in your face if he were here.

And he will some day.
Click to expand...

Boy I love this posters wily ways. Posts a thread asking where we agree then lambasts people who disagree with her. And still can't admit she's a liberal. And yet, this move, totally a liberal move. rofl
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#53
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
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#53
DWR said:
After reading all your statements on this subject, there is no doubt that you are "liberal".
I would even say you are on the level of The far left that now is trying to impose there agenda on all of us.
The only "common ground" you are seeking is for all to agree or be labeled racist or a domestic terrorist.
Click to expand...

here is a good litmus test for a suspected hard core leftist - ask them to denounce black lives matter/ antifa violence,

they will not do it.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#54
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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#54
Wondering if the OP can agree that this is a sick outrage, and actual child abuse?

 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#55
#55
PennEd said:
Wondering if the OP can agree that this is a sick outrage, and actual child abuse?

Click to expand...

Just sickening. Taking an innocent child and warping their mind. 100% child abuse. And Biden, who goes to church as lefties like to remind us, is pushing this agenda. Sick.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#56
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#56
gb9 said:
here is a good litmus test for a suspected hard core leftist - ask them to denounce black lives matter/ antifa violence,

they will not do it.
Click to expand...

Or the American Indians, if it's racism,discrimination ect. and we remove names,images ect. then should they live on free land,pay no taxes and receive checks from the government or should they pay taxes and gets jobs like the rest of the US does? What does equal mean one race of people pay for something that other men did hundreds of years ago or were all the same and live in the same country?
 
H

HillsboroMom

Active member
#57
Jan 3, 2021
287
74
28
56
#57
gb9 said:
here is a good litmus test for a suspected hard core leftist - ask them to denounce black lives matter/ antifa violence,

they will not do it.
Click to expand...
Well, that's easy.

I denounce all violence, no matter who commits it.

Will you denounce the evil that was done on January 6 at the capitol?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#58
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#58
HillsboroMom said:
Well, that's easy.

I denounce all violence, no matter who commits it.

Will you denounce the evil that was done on January 6 at the capitol?
Click to expand...
You mean the evil of congress voting in Biden/Harris?

Yes! I denounce it!
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#59
Sep 17, 2016
8,887
4,539
113
#59
HillsboroMom said:
That is your opinion. It is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


So, do you agree that banks should stop giving out interest, and capital gains, and other income that is gained through no work?

Do you agree that inheritances should be dissolved upon the death of the deceased, and distributed equally to all members of the society, rather than going to one family. After all, people should WORK for their money, not just inherit it.

Or do you just mean poor people should work, and rich people can continue to take advantage of the work of other people?

That's what I thought.


In your opinion. That opinion is no more or less valid than any other opinion.


Oh, honey, really? You honestly believe that? Were you born in 2008?

The government has been corrupt FAR longer than that. Do yourself a favor. Read some history. You don't even have to go that far back. Bush, Jr. Clinton. Bush, Sr. Reagan. NIXON FOR HERA'S SAKE?!?!?!?!? You think it started with Obama? Sorry, I can't believe anyone is that stupid.


That's like saying the cat tried to feed cheese to the mice. Trump was corrupt from the get-go. If you don't see it you're blind.


There it is. I was wondering how long it would take for your true "color" to show.

Disgusting.

Jesus would spit in your face if he were here.

And he will some day.
Click to expand...
That is your opinion. It is no more or less valid than any other opinion.
Click to expand...
Tell me where in the Bible does it say for government to take care of the poor, needy, widows, orphans? Tell me where I our Constitution does it give the federal government the power to do so? If you are going to say the welfare clause. Study what it originally meant before commenting.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#60
#60
gb9 said:
so, america should be communist and black racism is good?

what is disgusting?

all communism is bad and all racism is bad.
Click to expand...
The problem with govco social programs is that they have fund it by strong a robbery.

What I have worked for and give to my children is based on a biblical truth.
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children,
Proverbs 13:22 ESV

It is satanic and evil to take a man inheritance.

They covet fields and seize them, and houses, and take them away; they oppress a man and his house, a man and his inheritance.
Micah 2:2 ESV
 
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