Not By Works

Correct, last I checked, I believe Jesus will finish what He began.

I had made the point in post#150029 that it was both but PM777 was using a parable of Jesus to make the case that we are only servants and therefore can lose the Lord's salvation.

I never claimed that 'the "Unmerciful Servant" can't symbolically represent fallen humanity'. If anything it represents the religious hypocrite as forgiveness ought to be in direct proportion to the amount forgiven. Many religious people play the game but never knew the depths of their sinfulness and therefore their need to be forgiven. The unmerciful steward is the religious christian who shows little to no fruit of ever having been forgiven because he forgives little.
Here is the principle...

Luke 7:47 (KJV) Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

All scholars agree payment of the debt was impossible -- which is why he needed forgiveness of it, which he received in full. But, because he essentially told his Master, "this far and no further" by regarding greed in his heart, his Master reinstated the penalty. The only fate for the dude was to die in prison...hardly allegorical for "retaining of salvation".

Crossnote, please expound on this more.

Matthew 7:18
New King James Version
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

I believe the parable of the unmerciful servant is descriptive not prescriptive.

A born again, regenerated believer, that has the Holy Spirit in them, WILL forgive his brother. It is part of the good fruit he will produce.

umm, which part?

I think Crossnote said it best.

he had no fruit, which means he had no faith,

either that or he was being chastened for his sin, like God does all his children,

salvation can not be lost, you have been given so many passages of scripture which prove this fact. Yet you want to harp on one passage, like most legalists do.

Crossnote, when we read the Epistles to the churches, they are to the church about the church. Nobody needs to hear about the world going to Hell because we already know where they're going. The epistles tech the church about themselves.

2Peter 2:2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell[a] and committed them to chains[b] of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;[c] 7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 8 (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials,[d] and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge[e] in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones,11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction,13 suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions,[f] while they feast with you. 14 They have eyes full of adultery,[g] insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15 Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, 16 but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. 17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. 18 For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves[h] of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

1. V2 says they deny their Master that bought them. Since Jesus was their Master they were at one time His servants.
2. Accursed Children. Sinners are never considered God's children in scripture.
3. V15 says they forsook the right way. Sinners can't forsake what they never committed to. These were once saints.
4. V20 said they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Only saved people can do that.
5. V20 said they they are entangled again in sin. Only saints can do that.
6. V21 said it would have been better off fo them to never had known the way of righteousness than after knowing turn back fom it - indicating their judgment would be worse now after being saved to turn back than the sinner who never got saved.
7. Peter then quotes Proverbs 26: 11 about being like a dog returning to his own vomit.
8. The sow returning to its mire was apparently a rabbinical teaching at the time.

ALL of the context agrees with itself. God said if He didn't spare the angels who went after sin He won't spare christians who go back into sin either.
Crossnote, please give these scriptures a chance to tell the real truth.

Our debt is paid in full. Jesus Christ paid it on the Cross. We are to bear fruit and to spread the Good News. We are to forgive. Some deeds perpetrated against us may take the power of the HS within us to enable us to forgive.

HOW About Everything? We are still trying to discern weather you are a genuine Christian or just a religious want to be, without a true commitment.

Ditto. I don't submit myself to fruit inspectors...I concur with Paul...

1 Corinthians 4:3 (KJV) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

I'll wait for Cherie R to be more specific.

Unsaved people can have a knowledge OF Jesus Christ without knowing Him personally through the new birth.
Only saints can be entangled in sin?
Peter is referring to false teachers/enemies of the Gospel. We see good examples of such in the theological liberal churches who deny the Master who bought them.

crossnote said:
umm, which part?

I am sorry if that sounds crude, but I believe, we True Christians, can discern when a Christian is TRUE, by how he interprets Scripture.

In other words, are you a OSAS Christian?

How do you know you are one?

Do you believe your works are part of SALVATION?

What is your Relationship with our LORD?

How were you SAVED?

etc.

Matthew 7:15-20 (NIV)
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

HERE IS SPIRITUAL FRUIT.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


Thus we are all supposed to be FRUIT INSPECTORS.

AND you Mis-interpeted 1 Cor. 4:3, because JUDGED only means PASS SENTENCE UPON. Discerning Fruit is all of mature Christians jobs.

2 Timothy 2:19 ESV

[19] But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."

Regarding the bold script above, you can make a functional determination/guess, but only our Lord knows for sure who are His.

As hesitant as I am to speak for another member, I don’t have any reservations saying that not only has Mr Crossnote been here for a literal dog’s age, with thousands of posts to read about what he believes, but I can’t recall a single instance where I cringed on one of his posts dealing with doctrine.


That’s not to say I agree with every single issue with him. But there isn’t a person I know, here or elsewhere, that is in exact agreement with me on everything.

It is my belief that you don’t have to be OSAS Christian to be a true Christian. I haven’t gotten the impression from @crossnote of trying to work for salvation at all.

@CherieR, the unmerciful steward is showing he has no fruit of the Spirit and thus is not born again. If he was a son (born again), God's nature would be his new nature and realizing the reality of Gods gracious forgiveness, he would be moved to forgive in kind.
Because he's not a son (as seen by his lack of fruit), the illustration falls apart as evidence of non OSAS.