Not By Works

star · Feb 9, 2021

Woe unto those who decide the Blood of Jesus is not powerful enough to wipe away all sin and to save our souls unto eternity. Woe to those who misconstrue salvation as something to be worked for and to be kept through works. Woe to those who see not that salvation is a gift and one to be accepted without works.

Once we have salvation, ask for the leadership of our Lord Jesus Christ, yield to the Holy Spirit's guidance, works will follow.

VCO · Feb 9, 2021

peldom10 said:

JESUS SAYS THERE IS! I BELIEVE JESUS not you.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

We will BELIEVE THE BIBLE, and not anybody's false theology.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2021

peldom10 said:

And you?

Yes, you. By adding the word alone are in violation. Because scripture does not say by works alone, it says not by works of righteousness which i have done, but by Gods mercy he saved me, not of works lest anyone should boast. By grace I have been saved.

Take the word cor face value, it will do you well

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2021

peldom10 said:

God designated saved the moment of faith

Have been saved...

Saved us...

It also says god gave us every spiritual blessing under heaven (Eph 1). If we are not saved yet, we could not recieve it yet

Phoneman-777 · Feb 9, 2021

crossnote said:

Didn’t the Unmerciful Servant end up having to pay that impossible debt of which his Lord had the previously forgiven him in full?

Is it really that difficult to see that his impossible monetary debt is symbolic of our impossible sin debt?

crossnote · Feb 9, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

Are we speaking 'servants' or 'sons'?

Phoneman-777 · Feb 9, 2021

crossnote said:

Was Jesus speaking of “woolly sheep” or “human followers”?

It’s called “allegory” for a reason

Now, was the Unmerciful SERVANT fully forgiven only to find himself condemned again because he refused to give up his covetousness?

VCO · Feb 9, 2021

peldom10 said:

crossnote · Feb 9, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

I guess you can't answer the question, "Are we speaking servants or sons?"

Matthew 18:21-35 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? (22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. (24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. (25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. (26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. (28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. (29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. (31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. (32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: (33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? (34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. (35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We are sons through the new birth, and servants as we serve Him out of a thankful heart for His gracious and free salvation.

Here, ponder these (rather than lock into your preconceived NOSAS position...

John 5:24 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5:10 KJV
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Philippians 1:6 KJVS
[6] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

VCO · Feb 10, 2021

crossnote said:

NO, you are the one that Does Not Understand the true meaning of Bondslave or Bond-servent, or even SONS. We are BOTH.

Romans 1:1 (NASB)
1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Colossians 4:12 (NASB)
12 Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.

Colossians 4:7 (NASB)
7 As to all my affairs, Tychicus, our beloved brother and faithful servant and fellow bond-servant in the Lord, will bring you information.

Notice below, that even a half-brother, can call himself a Bond-servant.

James 1:1 (NASB)
1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.

Bondslave and bond-servant are names for the EXACT SAME POSITION, a willing SLAVE to rich Master, and it was a repectable way to make a living. Two thousand years ago, you could willingly apply for a position as a Slave to rich man, BECAUSE you could have a Better Quality of life, than you could by hiring yourself out for WAGES. So they would hire themselves out for Room and Board, and nothing more, and agree to do anything his Master told him to do. This friendly relationships grew to a point, in some cases, that their
Master would give in his Slave a share in his will, to the Inheritance equal to a biological Son. From the MOMENT his name was in the Will, that Slave had the right LEGALLY, (and STILL IS), to use the TITLE, SON of JOSHUAH, or whatever the Master of the House NAME was. That is still the Law in ISRAEL, and if his BIOLOCICAL SONS, were dead beats, and drunkards, that Master could then cut them out of the WILL, and Leave all of his Property to a Servant. So Bondslave, Bond-Servant, and Son are ALL THE SAME TERM, which is the one that inherits the Property of the MASTER. And you can chalk that up to ISRAEL having a Different Cutler than ours.

Frank · Feb 10, 2021

Very interesting debate

BillG · Feb 10, 2021

VCO said:

NO, you are the one that Does Not Understand the true meaning of Bondslave or Bond-servent, or even SONS. We are BOTH.

Romans 1:1 (NASB)
1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Colossians 4:12 (NASB)
12 Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.

Colossians 4:7 (NASB)
7 As to all my affairs, Tychicus, our beloved brother and faithful servant and fellow bond-servant in the Lord, will bring you information.

Notice below, that even a half-brother, can call himself a Bond-servant.

James 1:1 (NASB)
1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.

Bondslave and bond-servant are names for the EXACT SAME POSITION, a willing SLAVE to rich Master, and it was a repectable way to make a living. Two thousand years ago, you could willingly apply for a position as a Slave to rich man, BECAUSE you could have a Better Quality of life, than you could by hiring yourself out for WAGES. So they would hire themselves out for Room and Board, and nothing more, and agree to do anything his Master told him to do. This friendly relationships grew to a point, in some cases, that their
Master would give in his Slave a share in his will, to the Inheritance equal to a biological Son. From the MOMENT his name was in the Will, that Slave had the right LEGALLY, (and STILL IS), to use the TITLE, SON of JOSHUAH, or whatever the Master of the House NAME was. That is still the Law in ISRAEL, and if his BIOLOCICAL SONS, were dead beats, and drunkards, that Master could then cut them out of the WILL, and Leave all of his Property to a Servant. So Bondslave, Bond-Servant, and Son are ALL THE SAME TERM, which is the one that inherits the Property of the MASTER. And you can chalk that up to ISRAEL having a Different Cutler than ours.

Why are you disagreeing with @crossnote or telling him he is wrong?

Is seems to me he believes in OSAS, sure he will correct me if I am wrong.

He said the following.

We are sons through the new birth, and servants as we serve Him out of a thankful heart for His gracious and free salvation.

Nothing wrote with that.

Edify · Feb 10, 2021

crossnote said:

Hi Crossnote. Sons are servants. Jesus said so. They are one & the same.
PM777 is correct.

Edify · Feb 10, 2021

Jesus always taught principles of the kingdom of God. Even when He quoted the law, He taught these principles.

BillG · Feb 10, 2021

Edify said:

Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. JKV Galatians 4:7

Galatians 4:7
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. NKJV

Is there a difference between servant/slave?

VCO · Feb 10, 2021

BillG said:

Bill, I was only calling him WRONG, because he separated Servanthood from Sonship. They are the Same Thing, because of the difference between Israeli cutler and ours.

But the more I think of it,
I remember when DAD said as we were standing on the front Porch, and he said, "I think we need to plow that wheat stubble under today."; I knew right away, I had to get on that tractor, and plow that field, because when he said WE, he meant I would have to plow that field.

Service of a SON, and Service of a Loving Servant are the EXACT SAME THING.

VCO · Feb 10, 2021

BillG said:

Bondslave and Bond-Servant are the exact same position.

Phoneman-777 · Feb 10, 2021

crossnote said:

I guess you can't answer the question, "Are we speaking servants or sons?"

Matthew 18:21-35 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? (22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. (24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. (25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. (26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. (28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. (29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. (31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. (32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: (33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? (34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. (35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We are sons through the new birth, and servants as we serve Him out of a thankful heart for His gracious and free salvation.

Here, ponder these (rather than lock into your preconceived NOSAS position...

John 5:24 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5:10 KJV
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Philippians 1:6 KJVS
[6] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I thought my answer was clear...you claim the "Unmerciful Servant" can't symbolically represent fallen humanity because we aren't servants - we're sons. By that logic, "sheep" can't represent helpless humanity because we aren't sheep - we're humans.

Did you even read Matthew 18:35 KJV when Jesus plainly states the punishment of the Unmerciful Servant will be ours if we do as he did, which irrefutably proves the Unmerciful Servant represents us?

eternally-gratefull · Feb 10, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

He was delivered to the torturers u til his debt was paid

yet, this seems like chastening. Not loss of salvation

crossnote · Feb 10, 2021

VCO said:

NO, you are the one that Does Not Understand the true meaning of Bondslave or Bond-servent, or even SONS. We are BOTH.

I don't believe I was addressing you.
I had also said, "
We are sons through the new birth, and servants as we serve Him out of a thankful heart for His gracious and free salvation."

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